Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?

[Cajunn]

Hi my name is Cajunn and I'm a "Ho" but I am getting therapy for my problem  and I'm also attending HA meetings.   

[Dadano]

If you want to call staying on top of the fight a sissy move,

You guys don't fight how I fight, or fly like I want you to fly; so I think you're dbags. No big.

[Urchin]

Savlan -

Thanks for proving my point.  I was going to quote you, but it is just to long.  And I'm to lazy.  Instead I'll just pull out the relevant points.

You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.

Yea, the beautiful thing about being around this game for years and years and years and years....  I don't need to watch every film some noble warrior whining about someone else whining about him not "fighting fair".  99,999 times out of 100,000 the film shows our noble warrior fully committed to taking a shot, ANY SHOT, that he can get - then proceeding to act offended when he misses the little golden ring and the ring has the nerve to laugh at him.  I changed the metaphor a little there, since you are absolutely correct that the other guy isn't participating in the lists, so our noble warrior must be practicing. 

At 1k the merge begins.  The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot

Yea, you and 95% of the arena, Sir Henry.  The point is, you can't even tell where the guy is going, and you already have your lance couched.  Guy turns 90 degrees to you?  You hold in the trigger until you fly past him.  Guy turns towards you, but doesn't "HO"?  You hold in the trigger until you fly past him.  Guy turns towards you and holds the trigger down?  You hold in the trigger until you fly past him (or ram him, I'd say that is probably the most common ending when two noble air knights meet in the great lists in the sky).

You, and 95% of the folks in this game now, go for any shot you can go for.  No, I don't blame you, you have to beat out the other 17 guys for the rare kill.

By my definition HO literally stands for Head On.  For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose.  This is the so called and aptly described joust.  If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there?  The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out.  Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'.  Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.

I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"

The point is, the guy was 100% committed to taking a shot, no matter what Karaya did.  Since there is no short term for "being a moron who is fully committed to taking a shot on the first pass no matter what the other guy does", the term "HO" has been shanghai'd.  Is it accurate?  Nope.  Are you going to be enlightened from reading this post?  Nope.  Why am I bothering?  I truly don't know.

I would like to add that I am tremendously impressed with my BBS posting skills.  I thought I'd have to edit the heck out of that to make it look right, and it came out ok on the first try.

[LYNX]

I'll comment on the first few seconds of the film but would like to have seen the 30 seconds before hand to see how the 2 players got to the start of the film.

It was not a HO and only JUST what we would call a merge.  It was more like 2 ships passing in the night.  They BOTH could have made something of it but they didn't.  So what if the P38 kicked in a shot, rudder or otherwise .....bid deal.

To many terms being Hijacked in this game for the sake of ego.  That was just another example.  Had this been the FIRST shot taken in the DA then we could say, AT BEST, the P38 was naughty.  Considering its the MA and the p38 was outnumbered it was little more than a cheeky snap shot.


--------------------------->SHIPS PASSING IN THE NIGHT<-----------------------------------------
 

[Urchin]

The P-38 isn't being "naughty" at all.  Taking every shot you can get is normal, at least until you understand that by sometimes not taking every shot you can get, you can set up for ones that are easier to land and more effective.

[mechanic]

Anodizer can i ak you one question?

Was there any part of you that felt "Oh dear, fighting a co-alt spit9 im going to get waxed. I know, I will just shoot him on merge and negate the risk alltogether"?

Clearly this was a front quater shot, but the intention to HO (as urchin says) was always in the back of your mind, or so i believe. I think you took that early shot because you were almost certain a well flown spit9 co-alt would end your sortie. Karaya's merge shows someone who is confident of their ability to win this fight using ACMs.

Thats fair enough, It's not a Tea Party simulation afterall.

[The Fugitive]

To me, yes Anodizer went for the HO. He had ample time to change his approach angle to get a better shot but didn't. While going for the HO in that run is a bit classless, its the norm in the MAs these days. What followed after is what bothers me more. He spent the rest of the film AVOIDING A FIGHT ! He had 5 targets below to go after, and even using wimpy BnZ passes he could have been far more aggressive. Someone else pointed out that Karaya was just as bad for trying to climb to him... why not, he's the only target around, and the target was climbing away, at least he was trying to fight.

Its a combat game, FIGHT !! you want to fly around and look at the scenery go fly Microsofts FlightSim !

[humble]

1)

The shot in question was not a HO. Period end of story....

2) Had Karaya flown on his original path it would have been....

So what we have here is a question on intent and poor technique. It's not my place to say whether someones "intent" was for a pure HO or not. What I will say with a feeling of certainty is that the 38 flew a horrible reactive "merge" with no evidence of any plan of action. Not having the spits side but viewing it from the 38's perspective he was slow reactive and climbing. This is almost avoiding a B & Z pass not a merge given the 170?MPH speed difference. Knowing the pilot I don't feel comments of "the spitty should have" are appropriate.

3) What I do see is a very poor use of superior position. The 38 had clear control of the situation and went for a poor low % face shot of what ever variation it could force instead of using proper tactics. If you look at the 38's roll and orientation at 5 seconds you see an orientation on the Target vs use of any maneuvering to secure some form of AOT. To me this is a failed B&Z pass not a merge.

Poor form, yes
Bad technique, yes
"HO", no

Just my 2 cents

[Shuffler]

lol I went into the Training Arena II aka LW Orange and a horde coming at me .... the first three try to HO. From my experience, over the years, if you want a good fight stay out of those arenas as most folks in there depend on Hos and hordes.

The pics of this pass don't show a HO IMHO. Looks as if someone got too close to giving someone else a solution.
As for anyone being concerned it is a spit, I think you'll find that 99% of those that fly spits are newer individuals who give more than their fair share of solutions. While you must assume that the spit pilot is a 1 percenter when merging, if he gives that solution then help him mend his ways..... take it.

[Dadsguns]

My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot....  No head-on intended...  

Looked like a normal front quarter shot attempt, not a ho. 

Why did you bail out at the end of your film, you had the spit and yak just ahead of you ready pounce?

EDIT:
I did not read everyones post prior to viewing this film, I am glad I didn't.  But now that I have, some of you have no Idea what a HO is, and if you consider this front quarter shot a HO attempt, your sadly mistaken.
There are players out there that come at you nose on each and every attempt ONLY, you can avoid it all you want but no matter what you do this is what you will get from said players, frontal merges and that's it.  There are several players that fly spits that do just that, and any other cannon laden plane that will give them any chance at success, but to confuse this film with as being a HO is ludicrous.

but would like to have seen the 30 seconds before hand to see how the 2 players got to the start of the film.

Poor form, yes
Bad technique, yes
"HO", no

 

[Anaxogoras]

Many of you are missing the point that what makes a HO is frequently not what actually happens, but what could have happened: it is counterfactual.  The biggest losers are the ones who think they're not HO'ing because the other guy didn't go for the shot when he could have.  It's a troglodytic lack of comprehension that mistakes higher character for weakness.

[jon]

.

The pics of this pass don't show a HO IMHO. Looks as if someone got too close to giving someone else a solution.
.

You are correct if karaya would not have turned ,Anodizer would have HAD a solution. Would he haveshot? I dont know. Did anodizer TRY to avoid a nose on nose? Absolutely not! In the film he spends the whole merge trying to get his nose on the spit not trying to avoid it.Technicly he tried to ho karaya and karaya avoided it. so i will not call this a ho i will call it a failed ho.

[Shuffler]

You are correct if karaya would not have turned ,Anodizer would have HAD a solution. Would he haveshot? I dont know. Did anodizer TRY to avoid a nose on nose? Absolutely not! In the film he spends the whole merge trying to get his nose on the spit not trying to avoid it.Technicly he tried to ho karaya and karaya avoided it. so i will not call this a ho i will call it a failed ho.

Ahh what your saying is because he could have he did. Same thing that anax guy is saying.

Like a woman suing you for rape because you have peck'er. You didn't do anything but you could have.

Doesn't make sense but to each his own.

[Sincraft]

Guns are pointed forward for a reason, intentional ramming is a different topic.  Quit squeaking about the HO and just play the damn game for once.  God, I swear most of you are 3 years old. 

[Yeager]

Why am I bothering?  I truly don't know.

after taking the time to read the bulk of your post I would have to agree.