Is this the ho attempt you spoke of last night Karaya?

[Fianna]

Not a HO.

It would've been a HO if Karaya had continued on his normal path, but we'll never know whether or not you would have pulled the trigger in that situation.

[475FG Savlan]

A wide variety of well respected long time players here in this thread mixed in with various community members...and yet there is no consensus whether or not the merge is a head on, despite snaps & film.

A microcasm of the US jury system at work

Like Sincraft says here, Id prefer there was no squeaking about the HO - especially since this thread is proof positive that there is no agreement on what a HO really is.

Its kinda like that website 'hot or not' where people vote on whos attractive.  Perhaps we should start a 'Ho or NO' webpage? 

[Anaxogoras]

Ahh what your saying is because he could have he did. Same thing that anax guy is saying.

"He" is ambiguous the way you use it.  Please explain another way?  I'm not certain you understand our opinion, yet.

Like a woman suing you for rape because you have peck'er. You didn't do anything but you could have.

Doesn't make sense but to each his own.

Please explain your analogy.  I don't see it.

this thread is proof positive that there is no agreement on what a HO really is.

True, but disagreement doesn't mean that those of you who disagree with me are not wrong.

[Anodizer]

I'd appreciate if someone could lock this already.... 

[Shuffler]

.....what makes a HO is frequently not what actually happens, but what could have happened .....

There in your own words ....

[stodd]

5 pages and Karaya hasnt even responded, <S>K.

[Anaxogoras]

There in your own words ....

So?  Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched.  The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot.  In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim.  So the analogy never gets off the ground.

Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are.  Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.

[bj229r]

So?  Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched.  The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot.  In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim.  So the analogy never gets off the ground.

Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are.  Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.

OOOOooook Anaxogoras, we only use 3 syllable words and less here

[Cajunn]

I think I have said this before in another thread, but the fact is in what is referred to as a "Ho" in this game was a tactic that the earlier American fighters used against the Zero's in war 2 because they knew the Zero was not as sturdy and couldn't take the punishment. I personally don't hold it against anyone if this is the tactic that wants to be used. And to be honest if I'm in an out numbered situation I will "HO" anything that comes head on to me figuring my chances aren't that great to start with. And in reality to be Ho'ed in the game you have to be in a head on with the plane that your fighting with so your intentions or suspect to start with. Any time I hear someone complain about being Ho'ed my first thought is what were you doing in a head on and in the same flight plane that allowed you to get ho'ed, do you really think you can go head on with a fellow and him not shoot! hummmmm

[yanksfan]

Nice to see some things never change

Hi guys, your all a bunch of nasty lil ho's

good to see Dan posting, hope your back to flying Dan, Anodizer yur a good dude, so is karya, everybody whines about Ho shots, you do remember my constant whine don't ya lol.

personally i'd rather get shot in the face then give one, but i have been guilty of squeezing the trigger to quick also, it happens, screw it.

might be coming back at some point if life slows down a little for me, until then be good to each other.

Don

[Shuffler]

So?  Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched.  The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot.  In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim.  So the analogy never gets off the ground.

Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are.  Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.

So based on your own account, your saying neither HO'd.

I'd agree with that!

I think I have said this before in another thread, but the fact is in what is referred to as a "Ho" in this game was a tactic that the earlier American fighters used against the Zero's in war 2 because they knew the Zero was not as sturdy and couldn't take the punishment.

You've misread somewhere I'm sure. No one wanted a HO as either could die..... really die. Many of the jap planes had canon. No one wants to be on the receiving end of those. While it was used to some extent it was not the chosen method.

[BaldEagl]

Is this what you do to attempt to make others look bad when a fight doesn't go your way?  ...So, I think it's time to let the rest of the AH community involved in making a judgment call based on this film..  You seem to have ignored my PM's in the past as you probably knew that everything you blabbered on 200 for everyone to hear was complete BS...  You've got a huge ego to protect.

I'm confused.  Who's trying to make who look bad and who's trying to protect whos ego?

[Yeager]

You've misread somewhere I'm sure. No one wanted a HO as either could die..... really die. Many of the jap planes had canon. No one wants to be on the receiving end of those. While it was used to some extent it was not the chosen method.

Just finished up a book called "Aces High" about the ace race between McGuire and Bong (really good read btw).  I think every recorded combat of both McGuire and Bong was detailed in the book.  One of the things that struck me was the number of times Bong entered a fight nose to nose with a Japanese fighter and got a kill out of it firing on the merge.  IIRC 7 or 8 kills by Bong were attained head on.  McGuire seemed to excel at the high deflection shots most others wouldn't even attempt, where as Bong is credited with a more direct approach head to head or dead astern.

Again, good book.  Aces High by Bill Yenne.

[Stang]

Stupid ho!

[Crash Orange]

So based on your own account, your saying neither HO'd.

Neither successfully HO'd, only because one tried to avoid the HO and succeeded. The other tried to HO and failed to close the deal. Look at the thread title - "ho attempt".

Your rape analogy fails because it confuses potential with attempt. It is not a crime to possess the potential to rape, but decide not to do so. It is a crime to make an active attempt to rape even if your intended victim manages to thwart you.

Not to mention that comparing a HO to a felony is pretty silly.

What I'm puzzled about is why Anodizer bailed out.