Planes With the Best E Retention

[Gianlupo]

Here's E retention for ya,  

I took up the Tempest for some killing, I have not flown it very often, I know its one of the fastest, and a BnZ monster, I am used to flying the  Hurri so its quite a bit different then my "ride",

anyways, after a good sortie with 5 killz, my engine gets hit, I look at the map and realize I am over a sector in enemy territory, so I nose down and head towards closest friendly field,  climb at about 1k a min., I get a half sector closer to my field,  at about 10k, the engine dies I level out and coast, speed drops quickly so I figure im gonna half to bail, being a temp I say "screw it" gonna try to make it, so here I am, coasting, I don't remember how long it took but I coasted around 20 miles without losing much alt.  
  I was very impressed with the E holding capabilities, no other plane that I have flown can do that.

I'd say that has little to do with E retention, it has more to do with gliding capabilities.

[Gianlupo]

Sorry, triple post, it looks like I and Lusche have been caught in an Internet whirlpool.

[Lusche]

Yup. some serious intardnet mess

[Gianlupo]

As said, triple post.

[Saxman]

Okay, I've asked it before, and I still don't understand...what is the precise purpose of comparing what amounts to the ballistic coefficient of airplanes with their throttles idled, as opposed to with their engine running, as they tend to be in combat? We aren't shooting the things out of cannons. I've tested zoom climbs, and at the end of the day the Spit16 hangs pretty well with most in the game. If that Spit16 can follow your Jug or Hog into the vertical and shoot, it little matters that the reason is advantageous power loading instead of advantageous mass/drag ratio.

The Spitfire Mk.XVI also has an insane sustained rate of climb. However I've left Co-E Spixteens wallowing in the Zoom in an F4U.

[SmokinLoon]

E retention is a combo of a few things: Momentum, airframe aerodynamics, and yes... engine power.

Take whatever airplane you want to test, take it to 10k, dive to 450mph and level off with with normal mil power.  According to this tinky dink spread sheet I have that Luche provided the Mossie has the best E retention.  While the Mossie does in fact have an awesome ability to retain E, this data was made with engines off.  

Trying to guage the "E" retention of an aircraft without taking into consideration the engines is like pushing dragsters down a hill with engines off and whichever one gets to the bottom first has more "power".  The engines are a very big part of how well an aircraft can maintain the extra E, dont kid yourself.  

[Rich46yo]

Actually I just took a Tempest up in the training arena and it glided about as good as the Typhoon, which is about as good as a rock. Maybe Im doing something wrong, its still a great airplane. Can someone else try it?

Of them all Ive never had anything glide as good as the LA-7. Bomber-wise the KI-67s are great gliders. Ive taken them in with no power from a sector away. The IL-2 is a surprisingly good glider. Which is a good thing cause the oil is always being shot. As long as you turn for base right away and keep about 1k you should be able to glide in.

[BnZs]

The Spitfire Mk.XVI also has an insane sustained rate of climb. However I've left Co-E Spixteens wallowing in the Zoom in an F4U.

Management of relative E states has everything to do with it though.

My tests showed that starting from 400mph at sea-level, the SpitXVI and the F4U-1A regained almost exactly the same amount of alt in a zoom.

But even if the F4U or whatever massively outzoomed the Spit, the relevant relative comparisons would be performance with the engine running, not at idle.

[Murdr]

Actually I just took a Tempest up in the training arena and it glided about as good as the Typhoon, which is about as good as a rock. Maybe Im doing something wrong, its still a great airplane. Can someone else try it?

Reduce your RPM to minimum.

[Lye-El]

Reduce your RPM to minimum.

What he said. You can test it by killing your engine and hit alt X. After you are stabilized reduce your RPM and you will see your nose rise relative to the horizon. This means your sink rate is reduced and glide extended because you have reduced the drag of the prop.

[Widewing]

 90 % of the rides cant break 375 mph leval  i want to see a fm2 or huricane ect ect do this
  only way to do it is to dive and then leval at 400 therfor creating a false test platform

Of course you must dive... No prop fighter can attain 400 mph at sea level. My test measures the bleed associated with drag, of the airframe and the prop.


My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

Let's take several fighters with similar max speeds at sea level. P-51D, Bf 109K-4, P-47N and Ta 152H. I load 25% fuel in each, take off and climb to 5k. I level off, build speed to 300 mph TAS. I then dive to 500 feet in WEP, level off and let speed bleed down. I begin timing speed bleed at 400 mph TAS and measure how long it takes to bleed down to 375 mph TAS while in WEP.

P-51D: 65.6 seconds
Bf 109K-4: 52.3 seconds
P-47N: 50.4 seconds
Ta 152H: 47.3 seconds

Which fighter displays the best E retention in level flight?


My regards,

Widewing

[Karnak]

I imagine the Mosquito would do fairly well in that test.

If not, then I've been using a poor tactic with it to deal with La-7s. 

[cobia38]

Let's take several fighters with similar max speeds at sea level. P-51D, Bf 109K-4, P-47N and Ta 152H. I load 25% fuel in each, take off and climb to 5k. I level off, build speed to 300 mph TAS. I then dive to 500 feet in WEP, level off and let speed bleed down. I begin timing speed bleed at 400 mph TAS and measure how long it takes to bleed down to 375 mph TAS while in WEP.

P-51D: 65.6 seconds
Bf 109K-4: 52.3 seconds
P-47N: 50.4 seconds
Ta 152H: 47.3 seconds

Which fighter displays the best E retention in level flight?


My regards,

Widewing

       ok it all looks cute~n~fuzzy
 first off, was all 4 planes at same speed at 500 feet when you leveled out ??
 if they wher then you have a ligit test. if not you wasted your time.
    if the above mentioned planes dive from 5k to 500ft and the dive angle is EXACT SAME
  all 4 will reach 500 ft at different speed,therefor even though you start timing at 400 mph the innital leval out speed is where the E retention comes into play
  if a plane levals out from a dive at 475 and another at 450 and you time both of them from when they reach 400 to 375 the plane that was going 475 will have more potential E stored.

.
   

[Tilt]

 seems to me that which ever measure you use re "e retention" you have to have loads of qualifying factors......

Really its the qualifying factors that tell you want to know.............

e.g which is best in the following

High speed level flight (Powered /unpowered?)

Low speed level flight (Powered /unpowered?)

Zoom (inertia & momentum)

Net e retention thru manouvre

Then all the above at various altitudes.