Could Someone Please Define a "HO"?

[Mustaine]

This is why I always say.... "Its ALWAYS my fault if I get HOed" and seriously I mean it 100%... There is always a way out of a HO and you always have the choise to get out of it.

See the comment below yours.

If you are lead turning so damn early I can see your plane from nose to tail, you better believe I am going to take the shot. To do otherwise would voluntarily surrender initial angles and (more often than not) the fight.

Now I am talking about the MA here....

You attempt to avoid early you risk an good opponent like Del besting you. If you attempt to zoom past like in the DA you get shot at even if you are not trying to shoot them in the face. You have to find some "middle" ground I haven't yet in 7 years of AH

It is NOT easy to avoid the HO in the MA, I don't care what anyone says.

[SlapShot]

It is NOT easy to avoid the HO in the MA, I don't care what anyone says.

Well ... if your "setup" wasn't so GD screwy you might find it a little easier ... 

[WMLute]

See the comment below yours.

Now I am talking about the MA here....

You attempt to avoid early you risk an good opponent like Del besting you. If you attempt to zoom past like in the DA you get shot at even if you are not trying to shoot them in the face. You have to find some "middle" ground I haven't yet in 7 years of AH

It is NOT easy to avoid the HO in the MA, I don't care what anyone says.

Timing is everything.

Once you have the timing down, avoiding ho's are pretty easy.

Out of the 1,000's of ho attempts on me per tour, maybe 100ish almost land a shot, I might get hit and damage 10-15 times, and if I can't remember a tour i've died to a ho more than 4-5 times.  I might add more times than not I am nose on to my opponent during the merge.

I COUNT on them going for the ho shot.  Kinda throws me off when they don't.

[Dm6]

A Ho is when both planes have a gun solution...... NOw ingame this is were u can run into problems....  Some take advantage of NOT HOing on the merge... as soon as you twitch to avoid the HO they will light u up. "and it was a deflection shot you noob".  YOu really have to fly as if all guns are loaded and WILL fire and just not  merge where your in this posistion.

I personaly fly guns cold on all head on passes in the DA when im 1v1.... IM there to learn and for the fight not to just get a kill.   

In the MA I fly guns cold on all head on passes up to what i could show is a fair angle if some one complains.   NOW if someone HOs on any pass i will HO back if that is my only option.... Normly i invite the attempt to Ho...cause they are easy kills


<S>

[Mustaine]

Well ... if your "setup" wasn't so GD screwy you might find it a little easier ... 

<S> bro... still using the same stuff too

[BlauK]

"HO" is a term used mostly by the losing pilot as an excuse why he was shot down.

"HO" is also a situation where both planes can shoot at each other at the same time with their forwards fixed weapons. One of both can evade the HO attack/merge/flight course and then HO situation ceases to exist.

"HO" always includes a risk of getting shot straight at your face. If there is no such risk when you shoot at / fly towards your target, it is not a HO.

One CANNOT get HOed. One is always actively HOing himself (or allowing an HO to happen) or evading a HO, there is no in between.

If you don't want to participate in a HO, evade it. If you choose to participate in it, DO NOT whine about it

HO equivalent in Texas Hold em is "All in".

[CAP1]

"HO" is a term used mostly by the losing pilot as an excuse why he was shot down.

read up a few......i used it as the one that won.

"HO" is also a situation where both planes can shoot at each other at the same time with their forwards fixed weapons. One of both can evade the HO attack/merge/flight course and then HO situation ceases to exist.

"HO" always includes a risk of getting shot straight at your face. If there is no such risk when you shoot at / fly towards your target, it is not a HO.

One CANNOT get HOed. One is always actively HOing himself (or allowing an HO to happen) or evading a HO, there is no in between.soooo...i didn't really ho that c2 the other night? he ho'd himself, but used my guns to do it? 

If you don't want to participate in a HO, evade it. If you choose to participate in it, DO NOT whine about it

HO equivalent in Texas Hold em is "All in".the situation i mentioned, i was about to try to avoid it for the second time.....but i was in a pissy mood, saw tracers while he was still 2k out, so i lined him back up, and held the trigger till800, then dove under. he lost, but then so did i, because i didn't get a good fght from him...although i didn't think he was gonna fight anyway/..........

i suck at avoiding ho's. everyone says how easy it is. it seems to be for others, but it seems no matter what i try, the bad guy gets me 99% of the time. since i was trying to avoid, he says it wasn't a ho. i don't care anymore....if i think it's someone i know and respect, then i'll avoid it at all costs......anyone else, if i remotley think they're gonna ho me, i'm returning it. sucks though........

[BlauK]

The point is that no-one EVER wishes an HO. Everyone will always prefer the other guy NOT being able to shoot back at them at the same time. It becomes an HO when both are willing to risk it all at the same time.

I choose to allow the HO to happen when I don't have much to lose anymore, or if the enemy has much more to lose than I... e.g. while badly outnumbered, leaking or smoking without a chance to get back home. Naturally I will choose to try getting one more enemy down before my eventual loss.

[Qrsu]

Any real sharp change of direction can get you out of someone's gunsight so long as you watch their nose. Going underneath their guns is a good way to make sure they won't get a shot. Though a lot of it has to do with timing... telegraphing your evasion will likely set you up. I agree with BlauK - if I get HOed, it was my bad... Just gotta remember what you did to get you killed that round and don't do it again.

[CAP1]

Any real sharp change of direction can get you out of someone's gunsight so long as you watch their nose. Going underneath their guns is a good way to make sure they won't get a shot. Though a lot of it has to do with timing... telegraphing your evasion will likely set you up. I agree with BlauK - if I get HOed, it was my bad... Just gotta remember what you did to get you killed that round and don't do it again.

i've had guys "skid" their plane to get a shot on me when i try most evasives. it's amazing...almost like they go offline, and just practice nothing but ho's......and how to make em no matter what.

[Qrsu]

I hear ya Cap. Those skids are tricky unless you see them coming. When and if you do try to dive under their nose. They will have a hard time tracking you for a shot plus they'd have to either a) roll over and pull Gs for a shot OR b) nose down and pull Gs for a shot. The trend here is that if they are in the act of pulling gs for a shot they will be all over the place. If you manage to get by that initial attack - pull up into your reversal and you now have an ever so slight advantage on the merge... that's assuming they don't dive away to the deck anyway. 

[Agent360]

I can HO you any time I want to.

I can HO you and still make a perfect lead turn.

I can HO you on every merge and still make a perfect lead turn.

I can HO you and set you up for another HO.

You CAN NOT avoid a HO without giving up angles.

The concept of "if they ho they give up angles" is totaly incorrect.

There are no exceptions to this rule.

It simply does not matter what you do. If you attempt to maneuver out of the HO YOU WILL BE GIVING UP ANGLES...and further, on each merge therafter you will be at an angles disadvantage. Each time you avoid the HO you give more and more angles until you have no options.

The statement "an enemy who takes a ho allows me to make a better lead turn" is totally incorrect.

I can HO you and extend come back an HO again without loosing any advantage.

I can HO you and lead turn and gain advantage.

ANY ATTEMPT TO AVOID A HO WILL GIVE THE OPPONENT AN ADVANTAGE.

So, what do you do?

The answer is:

Do not allow a merge that gives a gun solution....simple as that.

And exactly how do you do that?

Quite simply conduct an energy robbing maneuver.

The goal is to rob the other guy of his energy allowing you to get behind his 3-9 line.

Once behind this line HE CAN NOT HO YOU.

Any time he is in front of this line you can be HO'ed

IF you choose to merge close you are in guns.

There are MANY maneuvers that allow you to merge without giving a HO solution.

The classic move is the "fake merge"....this move presents a head on pass but allows you to make a 90 deg turn out of guns forcing the opponent to make a 270 deg turn onto your six. After this it is a simple matter of continuing this unitl he is totally out of energy. You can now easily maneuver to his six.

[CAP1]

The point is that no-one EVER wishes an HO. Everyone will always prefer the other guy NOT being able to shoot back at them at the same time. It becomes an HO when both are willing to risk it all at the same time.

I choose to allow the HO to happen when I don't have much to lose anymore, or if the enemy has much more to lose than I... e.g. while badly outnumbered, leaking or smoking without a chance to get back home. Naturally I will choose to try getting one more enemy down before my eventual loss.

see...that's where you're wrong. you have the new guys, that either never took the time to learn, or just got on, or whatever, want a kill no matter the cost. all they know is ho n run. so they'll do it.......ho ya, run away, till you turn tail, then come back......repeat rinse.

 then you have the vet pile-its, that are very high time.....i mean well over 100 hours a month........they're fighting ya......doing ok sort of, but ever so slowly losing the battle. they finally see this, and set up a ho, just so they don't lose. they didn't need to, especially if it happens to be one that claims they don't care about winning or losing the fight. but they do. quite often too. and 90% of the time, those are pile-its that claim they don't ho.

[DamnedRen]

I can HO you any time I want to.

I can HO you and still make a perfect lead turn.

I can HO you on every merge and still make a perfect lead turn.

I can HO you and set you up for another HO.

You CAN NOT avoid a HO without giving up angles.

The concept of "if they ho they give up angles" is totaly incorrect.

There are no exceptions to this rule.

It simply does not matter what you do. If you attempt to maneuver out of the HO YOU WILL BE GIVING UP ANGLES...and further, on each merge therafter you will be at an angles disadvantage. Each time you avoid the HO you give more and more angles until you have no options.

The statement "an enemy who takes a ho allows me to make a better lead turn" is totally incorrect.

I can HO you and extend come back an HO again without loosing any advantage.

I can HO you and lead turn and gain advantage.

ANY ATTEMPT TO AVOID A HO WILL GIVE THE OPPONENT AN ADVANTAGE.

So, what do you do?

The answer is:

Do not allow a merge that gives a gun solution....simple as that.

And exactly how do you do that?

Quite simply conduct an energy robbing maneuver.

The goal is to rob the other guy of his energy allowing you to get behind his 3-9 line.

Once behind this line HE CAN NOT HO YOU.

Any time he is in front of this line you can be HO'ed

IF you choose to merge close you are in guns.

There are MANY maneuvers that allow you to merge without giving a HO solution.

The classic move is the "fake merge"....this move presents a head on pass but allows you to make a 90 deg turn out of guns forcing the opponent to make a 270 deg turn onto your six. After this it is a simple matter of continuing this unitl he is totally out of energy. You can now easily maneuver to his six.

Hiya Agent! Gud ta cya   .

I'm scratching my head. There's usally only one HO attempt. Most of the time the guy trying to HO will not get another chance. Personally, I have already gone for angles prior to my opponents trying to align for a HO and I'm pretty much on his 6 within a few seconds after his HO attempt. Then again I set up his pass to put me in postion to gain his 6 long before he ever gets to me.

What many folks don't understand is they think that a merge is an opening move when it may have already been a preordained kill when the guy was 1500 yards away from you. And the sad part is that he never even knew how easy is to "make" (is that a good word?) someone do exactly what you want them to do. What's more interesting is they fall for it over and over because they can't imagine that they have been set up for the kill. When I show them they go "huh?" Then the light comes on. THEN...they learn it but find out there's also a response to the response.

That's why I never worry about a HO. Don't get me wrong I've been caught on the deck with 3 on my 6 only to have someone come HO me from some angle I was turning to while looking back or when my graphics get so dark I can't even tell which way the guy was pointed. That's gonna happen and be acceptable until I do something about it.

But what makes this game so great is, for every move there is an equal counter move and for every counter move there is yet another equal counter move and so on. Kinda like chess, only at 300 mph. There is a dark side to it also...the guy that loops and loops and loops or does a flat turn, putting his nose up as high as he can get it, hoping, just, hoping the guy might not reach him.n Or how about the guy that cuts his engine or throttle nose up just hoping the guy will overshoot. KaaaaPowwwww...tower time. One single move does not a fighter pilot make.....(read HO).

Ren

 

[Delirium]

This is NOT a ho... note the speed and where the Ki84's nose is pointed.

(names removed to prevent the likelihood of a flame war erupting. This person was really upset that I took that shot and decided to be a bit inflammatory on 200)