Author Topic: More Ponies !  (Read 5983 times)

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2009, 12:37:14 PM »
Calling the G-2 a 1943 aircraft is a bit of a stretch as well, it was being replaced by the -6 by February of that year.

109G-2's were still flying in late 1943 and early 1944 (upgraded to G-4) and was still in production in July 1943. It takes time to replace an air force.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2009, 12:44:23 PM »
...and was still a front line fighter in 1943+
No, the Merlin 61 Spitfires were not in frontline service in 1944 and they were rare in 1943 compared to Merlin 66 Spitfires.
Quote
Is there really no reason to have 2,000 hp late-1944 P-51's that historically match up to the 109K-4 and Spit XIV?
Refer to my earlier post where I said it was fine, if perked.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2009, 12:45:53 PM »
G-2 production by all factories (WNF, Erla, and Mtt.-Reg. produced 109's) ended in February. The G-4 was still in production until July, but I don't know where they went- even RVG units had been re-equipped with the G-5/6 by this time. I would expect that most G-4's produced in July went to recce units.

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2009, 01:06:11 PM »
G-2 production by all factories (WNF, Erla, and Mtt.-Reg. produced 109's) ended in February. The G-4 was still in production until July, but I don't know where they went- even RVG units had been re-equipped with the G-5/6 by this time. I would expect that most G-4's produced in July went to recce units.

So the G-2 was still in production in February 1943. G-4 still in production in July 1943. Why is that so difficult to accept?




Newly received Bf 109G-2’s at Malmi airfield on 16 May 1943




1943, Summer  -   Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2/Trop   -   Sardinia
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2009, 01:10:08 PM »
No, the Merlin 61 Spitfires were not in frontline service in 1944 and they were rare in 1943 compared to Merlin 66 Spitfires.

Rare or not, they were there.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2009, 01:25:58 PM »
Rare or not, they were there.
You are being very, very disingenuous with your arguments, FYI.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2009, 01:38:03 PM »
You are being very, very disingenuous with your arguments, FYI.

No I'm not. You can't seriously argue that the late-1944/1945 P-51's are properly represented in the game. They clearly aren't. What is disingenuous are all these off-topic sidetracks and pointless bickering over details.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2009, 01:47:05 PM »
No I'm not. You can't seriously argue that the late-1944/1945 P-51's are properly represented in the game. They clearly aren't. What is disingenuous are all these off-topic sidetracks and pointless bickering over details.
Show me where I argued that.  You can't, because I didn't.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2009, 01:50:47 PM »
Show me where I argued that.  You can't, because I didn't.

No, but others have, and you sure as hell took part in the off topic pointless bickering. Why did you even bother to comment in this thread?
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2009, 02:32:48 PM »
No, but others have, and you sure as hell took part in the off topic pointless bickering. Why did you even bother to comment in this thread?
Because of your gross misrepresentations.

The late war P-51s are as well represented as the late war Bf109s and Spitfires.  There was a greater variety of those two, even late war, than of P-51s.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2009, 02:38:57 PM »
Die Hard's got no idea what he's talking about. Let me counter with P-51Bs flying well into 1945 right alongside P51Ds in mixed formations, having little to no trouble keeping up with their later brothers. Kind of casts doubts on your comments about not representing the performance differences between late/early P51s. We've got 'em.

Only thing we don't have is 150 octane, and IMO that's not really something we need. It's already one of the top 5 fastest prop planes in the game.

Offline Baumer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1739
      • 332nd Flying Mongrels
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »
Die Hard,

I usually don't get involved in these types of arguments, because for the most part, it's a matter of opinion not fact. You initiated this discussion, and asked for others opinions in a very odd way. You stated that you only wanted to hear from people who had the same thoughts, without allowing for any discussion.

Anyone else have the same thoughts on this subject?

From that point on, you should have just ignored any opinion that you disagreed with. It was clear to me that you had no intention of changing your opinion or looking for a discussion. So while many of the responses provided valid points of disagreement with you opinion, you continue to engage them as if they are wrong and you are right. So to make this very clear, to this point in the discussion, no one has completely agreed with your opinion. Some have agreed that any additional planes are good. A few, myself included, have agreed that the early versions of the Mustang are not represented properly.

Almost every other response is directed at the position that many other aircraft are need, BEFORE any further late war Mustang's would need to be added. I concur with that opinion, and suspect that you would have an extremely difficult time trying to convince any of us, otherwise.

You have done nothing to support your original position, and instead have chosen to react to the comments you should be ignoring. Perhaps if you posted some documentation to support your original position you'd do more to help this discussion. Because your current approach to responding, is only going make this worse.

Just a thought,
<S> Baumer     
HTC Please show the blue planes some love!
F4F-4, FM2, SBD-5, TBM-3

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2009, 02:57:17 PM »
The USAAF and the P-51 were not "sidekick actors" in the air war either. This thread is specifically about the P-51 plane set, not the 109; if you what to advocate the addition of the 109G-6/AS then start your own thread. The fact remains that in the game there are four 109's and four Spits covering 1943 to 1945, but only two P-51's. And the two we have really only cover 1943 and early 1944 in terms of performance.
Baumer beat me to it.
You initiated this discussion, and asked for others opinions in a very odd way. You stated that you only wanted to hear from people who had the same thoughts, without allowing for any discussion.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2009, 02:58:35 PM »
Fark it. There is no longer any point in making any form of discussion on this bbs; there are just too many pedantics and people who just argue for argument's sake.

Feel free to argue amongst yourselves.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Anaxogoras

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7072
Re: More Ponies !
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2009, 03:22:19 PM »
Fark it. There is no longer any point in making any form of discussion on this bbs; there are just too many pedantics and people who just argue for argument's sake.

Feel free to argue amongst yourselves.

Hehe, you're finally learning.  But this bbs isn't full of pedants, rather, it's full of people who defend the AH status quo. :devil
gavagai
334th FS


RPS for Aces High!