Ar 240

[moot]

Looks like that's part of the ventilation system.. Radiator or something.

[33Vortex]

So I'm being a jerk by pointing out your errors? Be prepared to meet a lot of jerks in this forum then.

This really is not the best forum for these discussions. This community is known to have a few... bad apples, if you will.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Vortex, that's funny and coincidental because I was just taking a little break here and reading a thread from '04 about the Reggiane 2005 Sagittario. WMaker was attempting to argue fact with Krusty and Krusty couldn't avoid going all "ad hominem", if you follow.

They used to say in Rome that you can't debate dispassionately with the plebians. In any case, I always commit to playing the ball, not the man. It's pretty evident, typically, who follows that rule and who doesn't.

I will add this about the 110... I'm a relative noob (though my aero engineering background and history give me a flying start) and find it entirely possible to look pretty heroic bomber hunting with the 110g. Indeed, in my time with JV44 I'm ashamed to say that I got my bellybutton handed me once by a well-flown 110. I, and I hate to admit this, was flying a papagei-colored D-9 at the time.

Remind me to never, ever try to HO a 110 with a fragile Jumo-nosed Dora. I'd say the same about the Sturmovik as well - but that was a different day/different embarassment.

OTOH, despite my earlier comment about the HE-100, I take a pretty favorable view of the 109K-4, save for that little compressibility issue, and have had surprising luck against Runstangs with the little K-Whopper. Clearly, though, the range would be a problem in the real world (and why, oh why could they not chop that razorback and put a decent bubble on it? - the six view is fine but the l/r frame sucks).

[Die Hard]

This really is not the best forum for these discussions. This community is known to have a few... bad apples, if you will.

Really? Known to whom?

[33Vortex]

Vortex, that's funny and coincidental because I was just taking a little break here and reading a thread from '04 about the Reggiane 2005 Sagittario. WMaker was attempting to argue fact with Krusty and Krusty couldn't avoid going all "ad hominem", if you follow.

They used to say in Rome that you can't debate dispassionately with the plebians. In any case, I always commit to playing the ball, not the man. It's pretty evident, typically, who follows that rule and who doesn't.

I will add this about the 110... I'm a relative noob (though my aero engineering background and history give me a flying start) and find it entirely possible to look pretty heroic bomber hunting with the 110g. Indeed, in my time with JV44 I'm ashamed to say that I got my bellybutton handed me once by a well-flown 110. I, and I hate to admit this, was flying a papagei-colored D-9 at the time.

Remind me to never, ever try to HO a 110 with a fragile Jumo-nosed Dora. I'd say the same about the Sturmovik as well - but that was a different day/different embarassment.

OTOH, despite my earlier comment about the HE-100, I take a pretty favorable view of the 109K-4, save for that little compressibility issue, and have had surprising luck against Runstangs with the little K-Whopper. Clearly, though, the range would be a problem in the real world (and why, oh why could they not chop that razorback and put a decent bubble on it? - the six view is fine but the l/r frame sucks).

The 190 is not a "dogfighter", it just does not turn well enough. If you want to excel in the 190 series you need to learn how to master the vertical. Dogfighters tend to just see a target and turn towards him, with no thought of angles, relative speeds and timing, all of which are critical in a vertical fight. Some seem to think that the fight begin when you're on someone's six, I consider that the end of a fight. Some consider the beginning of a fight being when you merge, I consider the beginning of a fight is when you first become aware of the enemy.

There are almost as many opinions on this as there are players/pilots. Just don't let anyone ever tell you how to play the game but remember this... if you got shot down, you did something wrong somewhere along the line of decisions that you made from the moment you rotated and tucked your legs in. If you want to build on your skills the best thing you can do is to identify where along the chain of decisions you made the critical mistake that took you beyond the "point of no return".

[PJ_Godzilla]

Vortex, I agree and disagree on your assessment of the d-9. It is NOT a flat-turner, certainly, and it does excel in the vertical. Indeed, the first time I figured that out was against a 109 who came looping at me like a circus clown. I got into a vertical scissor with him on my tail. As I kicked over the top, I realized that my excellent roll rate enabled me to pick any compass heading quickly. I thus reversed on him and killed him in the ensuing HO.

Where I would disagree: the D-9 can dogfight - just not in the same plane as a Spit, for example. I'd say, as long as kept fast and turned either flat through no more than 90 degrees or vertically by means of an Immelmann or Split S, it is entirely possible to furball a D-9 - or any other FW.

[33Vortex]

Where I would disagree: the D-9 can dogfight - just not in the same plane as a Spit, for example. I'd say, as long as kept fast and turned either flat through no more than 90 degrees or vertically by means of an Immelmann or Split S, it is entirely possible to furball a D-9 - or any other FW.

All descriptions of Air Combat Maneuvers are generalizations. Each maneuver have endless variations of it depending on speeds and angles. So I find it hard to describe a fight strictly by naming maneuvers in sequence, there is so much more to a fight than that.

It is possible to furball a D-9 but... it not only depends on your own skill, but also that of your opponent and your ability to assess him correctly. Knowing when to push it in a Dora (or any a/c for that matter) is a skill in itself.

Also, any fight is really all about energy management regardless whether it's a dogfight or BnZ fight. Correct use of available power is also something many people take a long time to figure out.

"...came looping at me like a circus clown."   

[Stampf]

Vortex - Didn't Stampf say he'd found evidence of a couple of 152Cs serving with JG11?

"H's" Moot.

Stab JG11 mounts from the Cottbus build record:

150 009
150 010 - second operational with wooden tail equipped. (currently in storage and previously mis identified as a JG301 ride.  True it began with the 301st but finished the war in Stab JG11.  It is good to remember that the birds that went to JG11 were there due more to the pilots procurement skills rather than official orders to equip the unit with the TA.  Most credit Hptm. Bruno Stolle for getting his past stabmates in the 11th the few TA's thay had in the final month's of the conflict. He pulled double duty leading the 11th and the Rechlin TA's for a time).

150 011 - probable - as well first to have GM1 installed.
150 012

150 028 and 150 031 were shot down by British Spitfires during ferry flight from Tarniwitz to Rechlin. 150 056 is believed to be the one that made it, but crash landed (ditched) at Rechlin.

One probable C made it in, but no operational flight record - as well as 150 027 which was a converted test bed for the C -3  and equipped with the Mk 103 and Db603 engine, test flown on 5 Jan. 1945.

[33Vortex]

Isn't it amazing what can still be dug up after all this time...

[moot]

Thanks Stampf.  Yep Vortex, really cool.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Speaking of which, I've been working on some maneuvers in the D-9 that seem difficult to pull off. First, it seems that the hammerhead OR wingover tend to get lost in roll torque as the airplane loses airspeed. I hate to chop throttle when I'm vertical and running out of airspeed but the roll authority runs out. I can't quite seem to get either of those maneuvers in the d-9. The 109k seems to have better rudder authority.

The other thing I've been having difficulty with is trying to replicate something I saw on TV in the DogFight series. It was the episode called "The Last Gunfighter" and one of the more memorable parts featured a case in which an F-8 Crusader was being lead-pursued in the flat by a Mig-17. The Mig was a bit higher than the Crusader so the Crusader was banked in a flat turn sort of vary low in the Mig's field of view - almost obscured by the Mig's nose. The Crusader pilot (he's famous at this point since this particular dogfight is widely known and taught) broke from his flat left bank with a kick of the rudder, resulting in a gravity-assisted yaw to diving vertically downward. He virtually disappeared from the Mig's field of view. I've been trying to replicate this maneuver in the D-9 and almost always find myself near red-out just after I kick the rudder. The rudder kick seems to induce a negative alpha - I guess you'd call it a yaw in bank. Pulling back to counter this typically seems to cause a sort of half-assed snap roll into a dive - not what I'm after.