Defining bad game-play

[PFactorDave]

I believe there is some incorrect information working its way into this conversation.

The fight had been going on over A9, V10, and the Bishop CV for hours.  The furball formed early in the day when a very small mission attempted to take V10 and failed.  Throughout the day, A9 and V10 had been bombed closed several times.  Also, the Bishop CV had been sunk several times.

There was no mission posted to take V10 when it finally fell.  A9 had been taken and a number of Bishop players spawned in on the ground to V10.  I was one of them.  I killed 2 defenders before being killed myself.

So, essentially, the fight at A9 and then V10 was merely a protracted fight that had begun much much earlier in the day.  It was essentially the taking of a defended pair of bases.  Because of said defense, it took about eight hours.


Is the issue here that the furball died when the bases were taken?  The way I see it, the furball went on for hours.  Much much longer then most.  Most furballs are born out of missions that fail, you know.  Are you (Fugitive) arguing that all missions should be designed to fail, so a furball will form?  Or is the issue that Falcon tweaked your nose in the game when you got all butt hurt that the base fell right as you got there?

People keep going back to the "HUGE" mission that took V10, which is pretty funny really.  Since there wasn't a mission to take it at all.

You know, I can see the side of the argument that doesn't like big NOE missions that are designed to roll over a base without opposition.  If I'm in a mission, I like it when the enemy ups ot defend.  But you know what, I don't believe that there are nearly as many big NOE missions going on as there were just a few months ago.  And not nearly enough of them to seriously impact gameplay in a macro sense.  This is all, much ado about nothing really.  

Something else that I think is being totally overlooked here is that large country missions have a place in the social structure of the game.  I was a new player about a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer).  First time I logged on, I was randomly placed on the Knights.  This isn't my first flight combat game, so I wasn't totally helpless (just mostly helpless, much like i am today)...  I played for a couple hours.  I was totally unimpressed with the way I was treated by my so-called "team-mates".  So, I switched countries to see if it was any different on the other side.  Just so happens, I switched to Bishop.  Somebody was advertising that a mission was forming so I joined, to check it out.  Guess what.  I had fun.  It was fun to be part of something.  It was good to be able to follow somebodies else lead for a little while.  I didn't really know what I was doing, so I followed and paid attention.

I continued to join missions.  Learning all the time.  Getting to know people a little.  Getting contact and experience I never would have gotten outside the missions.  Was I learning ACM by joining missions?  Nope.  I was learning the GAME.  Only after I was hooked on THE GAME, did I have enough interest to start learning how to use my airplane correctly.  If it hadn't been for those missions, I probably wouldn't have given AH2 enough of a chance to catch my interest.  Then I was invited to fly with RT for a couple of weeks, that's when I really got hooked on AH2.  Great bunch of guys, spend a large part of my AH2 time laughing at what is going on over dquad vox.  I'm sure most of you can say the same about your squad.

Now, what happens if all the sudden only the smaller missions are allowed?  Say HTC comes up with a way to prevent large missions.  Would open country missions die?  Probably...  If I can only have a set number of folks in a mission, I'm going to take people who I think are good pilots.  Not noobs...  So, you'll have a bunch of new players who get ZERO guidence early in their gaming experience.  In fact, their gaming experience is going to consist mostly of getting picked by all you experienced guys until they get frustrated, bored, and then quit the game.  Guess what, the game will die.  Without a constant influx of noobs, AH2 will go away.  Large missions are necessary to assure the inclusion of new players.  I think HiTech knows it.  Maybe he doesn't like it, maybe that's part of what he was trying to accomplish with CT.  Some alternative way to work new players into the system.  Maybe, maybe not.  Either way, it's irrelevant now.  CT is dead.  For better or worse, this is the game we have.

My advice, to those of you who keep moaning over the supposed degradation of game play...  Quit berating anyone who doesn't play the way that you think is best.  Quit whining and start contributing new ideas.  Ideas that will help work the new guys into the system in a FUN way.  If you don't want large missions (you're also going to be ruling out open country missions), figure out something productive then to keep the game moving, keep the player base growing.   And no, simply forcing them into the TA for X amount of time before they can log into the MA won't work.  The Training Corps isn't large enough or organized in a way that could handle that.  Get your egos out of the forums and off of channel 200.  You aren't changing anything by being tools to anyone who plays differently than you.

I say, if you're all worried about improving game play, do something about it.  Imagine the difference it would make if the experienced "elite" squads made a concerted effort to "adopt" a few new guys EVERY tour.  Teach them ACM.  Teach them what they need to know.  Open the doors to your elite halls and let a noob in once in awhile.  Quit crying over the degrading state of the game.

Maybe the answer is that every single squad, as payment for its continued existance be required to take on X number of new players (placed in the squad automatically without the squad having any choice in the selection.  At the end of the tour, the new guys are asked to fill out a quick survey to determine whether or not the squad is doing its duty in training new players.  If the squad gets failing marks, then it is disbanded and all squad members are banned from joining another squad for X amount of time.  I get tired of so much complaining about the state of "game play", when so few of you do anything even remotely substantive to actually contribute.  Sure, I'll bet you all assuage your conscience by telling yourself, "I'll help anyone who asks."  Big whoop!  Make an effort to actually go out there and FIND somebody who needs help.  Then after you get him off on the right track.  DO IT AGAIN!  It should be an ongoing process that never ends.  Imagine what would happen if 100 more experienced players each helped 1 new guy per tour.  I mean take the new guy to the TA/DA for a couple hours a week.  Imagine what would happen.  And it doesn't have to be 100 Trainer Corps qualified players...  Just people who know a little ACM.  You wouldn't have to make each noob into a terror of the skies, just somebody who can survive for a little while in the MA.

Unless you are willing to actually do something about it, you shouldn't be in here whining about the state of game play today.

Whatever...  That's all I have to say at the moment.  Take it for what it's worth.

[LYNX]

After last night watching your squaddie DREDger lead the charge in taking all of the center islands.   Which he has done time and time again, because he enjoys ruining other people's fun.   One must ask themselves, "What are we really trying to achieve?"

Karaya!  Quite frankly you suprise me.  I'll tell you what "WE" are really trying to achieve here.  You are trying to relive an old Tank Town argument with Dredger through me.  I'll tell you now I take exception to it.  For someone who many times has said he's a straight talker...spades a spades ethos, you let yourself down. 

Why you chose to quote my straight forward question to thndregg, without letting him answer, then putting this spiel (quoted above) to it shows me you haven't been following the thread, or you're myopic.  One of the two.



Putting this aside I'll take a moment to explain a few things to you.  Dredger mission don't contain...

Low level Lancaster's.
Suiciding CV bombers.
Bomb and bailers.
Auguring rinse & repeat porkers.
They are not overkill missions.
95% of his missions don't include hanger banging.
Rarity if the mission contains more than 15 which includes a c47 or 2.

Karaya you'd do best by letting Thndrgg answer the question and take up any petty beef you have with Dredger directly.


 

[Edgar]

I believe there is some incorrect information working its way into this conversation.

The fight had been going on over A9, V10, and the Bishop CV for hours.  The furball formed early in the day when a very small mission attempted to take V10 and failed.  Throughout the day, A9 and V10 had been bombed closed several times.  Also, the Bishop CV had been sunk several times.

There was no mission posted to take V10 when it finally fell.  A9 had been taken and a number of Bishop players spawned in on the ground to V10.  I was one of them.  I killed 2 defenders before being killed myself.

So, essentially, the fight at A9 and then V10 was merely a protracted fight that had begun much much earlier in the day.  It was essentially the taking of a defended pair of bases.  Because of said defense, it took about eight hours.


Is the issue here that the furball died when the bases were taken?  The way I see it, the furball went on for hours.  Much much longer then most.  Most furballs are born out of missions that fail, you know.  Are you (Fugitive) arguing that all missions should be designed to fail, so a furball will form?  Or is the issue that Falcon tweaked your nose in the game when you got all butt hurt that the base fell right as you got there?

People keep going back to the "HUGE" mission that took V10, which is pretty funny really.  Since there wasn't a mission to take it at all.

You know, I can see the side of the argument that doesn't like big NOE missions that are designed to roll over a base without opposition.  If I'm in a mission, I like it when the enemy ups ot defend.  But you know what, I don't believe that there are nearly as many big NOE missions going on as there were just a few months ago.  And not nearly enough of them to seriously impact gameplay in a macro sense.  This is all, much ado about nothing really.  

Something else that I think is being totally overlooked here is that large country missions have a place in the social structure of the game.  I was a new player about a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer).  First time I logged on, I was randomly placed on the Knights.  This isn't my first flight combat game, so I wasn't totally helpless (just mostly helpless, much like i am today)...  I played for a couple hours.  I was totally unimpressed with the way I was treated by my so-called "team-mates".  So, I switched countries to see if it was any different on the other side.  Just so happens, I switched to Bishop.  Somebody was advertising that a mission was forming so I joined, to check it out.  Guess what.  I had fun.  It was fun to be part of something.  It was good to be able to follow somebodies else lead for a little while.  I didn't really know what I was doing, so I followed and paid attention.

I continued to join missions.  Learning all the time.  Getting to know people a little.  Getting contact and experience I never would have gotten outside the missions.  Was I learning ACM by joining missions?  Nope.  I was learning the GAME.  Only after I was hooked on THE GAME, did I have enough interest to start learning how to use my airplane correctly.  If it hadn't been for those missions, I probably wouldn't have given AH2 enough of a chance to catch my interest.  Then I was invited to fly with RT for a couple of weeks, that's when I really got hooked on AH2.  Great bunch of guys, spend a large part of my AH2 time laughing at what is going on over dquad vox.  I'm sure most of you can say the same about your squad.

Now, what happens if all the sudden only the smaller missions are allowed?  Say HTC comes up with a way to prevent large missions.  Would open country missions die?  Probably...  If I can only have a set number of folks in a mission, I'm going to take people who I think are good pilots.  Not noobs...  So, you'll have a bunch of new players who get ZERO guidence early in their gaming experience.  In fact, their gaming experience is going to consist mostly of getting picked by all you experienced guys until they get frustrated, bored, and then quit the game.  Guess what, the game will die.  Without a constant influx of noobs, AH2 will go away.  Large missions are necessary to assure the inclusion of new players.  I think HiTech knows it.  Maybe he doesn't like it, maybe that's part of what he was trying to accomplish with CT.  Some alternative way to work new players into the system.  Maybe, maybe not.  Either way, it's irrelevant now.  CT is dead.  For better or worse, this is the game we have.

My advice, to those of you who keep moaning over the supposed degradation of game play...  Quit berating anyone who doesn't play the way that you think is best.  Quit whining and start contributing new ideas.  Ideas that will help work the new guys into the system in a FUN way.  If you don't want large missions (you're also going to be ruling out open country missions), figure out something productive then to keep the game moving, keep the player base growing.   And no, simply forcing them into the TA for X amount of time before they can log into the MA won't work.  The Training Corps isn't large enough or organized in a way that could handle that.  Get your egos out of the forums and off of channel 200.  You aren't changing anything by being tools to anyone who plays differently than you.

I say, if you're all worried about improving game play, do something about it.  Imagine the difference it would make if the experienced "elite" squads made a concerted effort to "adopt" a few new guys EVERY tour.  Teach them ACM.  Teach them what they need to know.  Open the doors to your elite halls and let a noob in once in awhile.  Quit crying over the degrading state of the game.

Maybe the answer is that every single squad, as payment for its continued existance be required to take on X number of new players (placed in the squad automatically without the squad having any choice in the selection.  At the end of the tour, the new guys are asked to fill out a quick survey to determine whether or not the squad is doing its duty in training new players.  If the squad gets failing marks, then it is disbanded and all squad members are banned from joining another squad for X amount of time.  I get tired of so much complaining about the state of "game play", when so few of you do anything even remotely substantive to actually contribute.  Sure, I'll bet you all assuage your conscience by telling yourself, "I'll help anyone who asks."  Big whoop!  Make an effort to actually go out there and FIND somebody who needs help.  Then after you get him off on the right track.  DO IT AGAIN!  It should be an ongoing process that never ends.  Imagine what would happen if 100 more experienced players each helped 1 new guy per tour.  I mean take the new guy to the TA/DA for a couple hours a week.  Imagine what would happen.  And it doesn't have to be 100 Trainer Corps qualified players...  Just people who know a little ACM.  You wouldn't have to make each noob into a terror of the skies, just somebody who can survive for a little while in the MA.

Unless you are willing to actually do something about it, you shouldn't be in here whining about the state of game play today.

Whatever...  That's all I have to say at the moment.  Take it for what it's worth.

 
Bravo Dave!

[Masherbrum]

Karaya!  Quite frankly you suprise me.  I'll tell you what "WE" are really trying to achieve here.  You are trying to relive an old Tank Town argument with Dredger through me.  I'll tell you now I take exception to it.  For someone who many times has said he's a straight talker...spades a spades ethos, you let yourself down. 

Why you chose to quote my straight forward question to thndregg, without letting him answer, then putting this spiel (quoted above) to it shows me you haven't been following the thread, or you're myopic.  One of the two.



Putting this aside I'll take a moment to explain a few things to you.  Dredger mission don't contain...

Low level Lancaster's.
Suiciding CV bombers.
Bomb and bailers.
Auguring rinse & repeat porkers.
They are not overkill missions.
95% of his missions don't include hanger banging.
Rarity if the mission contains more than 15 which includes a c47 or 2.

Karaya you'd do best by letting Thndrgg answer the question and take up any petty beef you have with Dredger directly.

DREDger is a minion and resorts to juvenile comments when not even so much as leaned on.   All I'm saying as I have ALWAYS said, I don't beat around the bush.   I've been a Rook how long?   I know EXACTLY what goes on, come on.   You are nuts if you think none of that goes on.   

I'm not trying to "relive anything".   It's just that 99% of the Community doesn't go out of their way to ruin fun for others.   Great you Bish/Rooks were gang banging Knights last night.    You forgot to look at the Country Statuses for your "reset attempts".   

But where many have ALWAYS drawn the line is taking center map bases.   It serves no purpose other than to not allow GV'ers a "quick one or two hop".   Instead all of you like minded, failure to see the light zombies get your rocks off hogging all of the bases.   If there was a snowballs chance of a reset, if you're that weak, then take em.   But when ALL countries are around 33% of each countries base quota, you're not taking them because "we rule and didn't whorde." 

It is a mindset LYNX.   That and that alone is the crux of this VERY THREAD.   It's a shame that some just sell themselves for a score.   

I'll ALWAYS sound off against center bases being taken.   I'm not a hypocrite and despise those who are.   

[Dadsguns]

Bravo Dave!

+1

[thndregg]

Karaya you'd do best by letting Thndrgg answer the question and take up any petty beef you have with Dredger directly.

My answer is a little ways back.

[falcon23]

Your so high and mighty about jumping in just to argue!

 A9 is the airfield on the south side of the island where the fight had been going on for ever, V10 is the Vehicle base on the north side of the island that didn't get going untill A9 was finished. I logged in and upped A9 in a spit, and barely got my wheels up before I was killed, then the base was captured. I upped A51 in a pony and went strait to V10 because that is the next logical place to fight. That is where I ran into the "stupidity" I saw. Dive bombing lanc, stick stirring Chogs that have no other move than the HO, making 3 guys over shoot my pony at the same time because they have no clue how to fly, and the biggest of all, more than 20 people to take a vehicle base.

Ask FALCON for the screen shot of the one a minute before the one he posted where he stated he was tired of the FB so he made a mission. HE dictated a way to play the game, not me. Everything I posted was what HE told me up until the capture of A9, I witnessed the rest. So I'm NOT lying, I'm just repeating what I was told.

I'm brutally honest, I call it as I see it. Do I vulch yes I do! Do I dive in to a fight with out asking, no I don't, Do I bomb HQs and factories, Yes I do, but not often, towns are closer, and more often than not someone will try to shoot you down there. Do I HO? nope. DO I bomb and bail? Nope I always try to RTB, in my fighters as well.

You keep saying we talk about changing everyone to "our game play" If that were the case we would be looking to get rid of the GVs, and the heavy bombers. All us fighter types need are fighter type planes. No we are talking about.....wait for it..... LAME GAME PLAY!

Heres that list I posted way back again....


    * HOs lame
    * dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
    * running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
    * spawn camping lame
    * being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
    * suicide dive bombers lame
    * bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
    * hiding captured CVs lame


Can you honestly say that all those things on that list ARE NOT LAME?

Do you see anywhere on that list capturing bases?... running missions?... working together with your squad?.... saving your "country" from the evil empire?

Again, this is NOT a BISH problem, its an Aces High COMMUNITY problem. There is lame play on all sides. I call it out when I see Rooks doing it, do you when you see your teamates do it, or do you just join in?

 The only thing I did fugitive was to make a mission to take A9...If we had not of taken a9,rooks would of moved in for the kill on the bases within the sector to take them..It was an OFFENSIVE movement to finally take back A base in our area..

 It took more than 20 to take the Vbase since there were more than 20 on the ground defending it..WW's are a force to be dealt with in the game nowadays and get plenty of kills..

 And fugi,the list you post is what every side does.IN a perfect world I suppose they would never happen,but since it isnt,we just have to deal with them..I dont find those a deal-breaker on if I play AH or not..

     The maps are big enough to support all game-play..Missions,big and small,FB's big and small,GV battles,big and small..There truly is something for everyone in this game..

   We cannot dictate what others do in this game..And it is like pfactor said.If one wants to change the mindset,one has to be PRO-active..

  Running missions helps people to learn where troops go,I cannot tell you how many times missions have been run,only to end up as base ack fodder,or how people learned just how slow LVTA2's are..

  Whats funny is I am not in any way trying to discourage people from furballing to their hearts content,or GV'ing as well,but many seem to want to discourage me from running my missions..

  I ran a mission just last night on the uterus map into A29,a rook base,a GV mission which didnt get the capture,but I am sure it was "FUN" for everyone invlolved..and it had big numbers,maybe 20,I dont recall exactly,so again the argument that NUMBERS in missions are ruining the game-play for some I really see as a MOOT point..

[The Fugitive]

 And fugi,the list you post is what every side does.IN a perfect world I suppose they would never happen,but since it isnt,we just have to deal with them..I dont find those a deal-breaker on if I play AH or not..

   

And again the excuse comes through..... Well they do it !!! 


If you don't do it, thats one

If you stop your squad from doing it, thats another 60

If you help stop the bishops from doing it, thats another 2000-3000 !

It has to start someplace. I work on it as a Rook, and try to spread the word here on the boards.

You can either man up and help clear up the problem, or you can be part of the problem, as always, its up to you.

[falcon23]

I am not a babysitter in-game,and dont try to tell people how to play it the way they want too..If someone is dry spawning troops into a field bish want to capture,it is not my place to tell them to stop. I am not going around monitoring people who HO...Or anything else on that list..

[NoBaddy]

I am not a babysitter in-game,and dont try to tell people how to play it the way they want too..If someone is dry spawning troops into a field bish want to capture,it is not my place to tell them to stop. I am not going around monitoring people who HO...Or anything else on that list..

It really is amazing how little of this you really understand. 

[Edgar]

It really is amazing how little of this you really understand. 

Not really hard to understand...

Fly the way that the Uber-stick gods of AHII deem appropriate or become a Dweeb, Noob, Ho-Tard, Tardlet or whatever else they can think of calling you on 200 while simultaneously thumping their chests and receiving accolades from their little minions...

[Getback]

Any winners yet?

[TequilaChaser]

Any winners yet?

Y of course.....the winners are the ones who eventually evolve beyond being Lemming tardlings and learn that flying with 8+ others to cover their incompetent abilities in the monkeyhumping horde is ruining the fun of most everyone else........

when lets say in a 1 vs 1 fight, or 2 vs 2 fight (  1vs 1 = you fighting 1 with 7 + of his teamates ready to pick you off at any given time, or 2 vs 2 = 2 winging fighting back 2 others with 12+ or more corraling you both for iminent death of cartoon life )

or when a mission is planned and the mission planner holds and waits and continously keeps resetting the launch time of the mission, until he sees that their is a close undefended field that can be SWARMED with ungodly numbers in force.....

the ones who evolve and see the light of ACES HIGH, that learn that fair gameplay, good sportsmanship, Good etiquette, and participating in all the different special events , tournaments, scenarios that Aces High has to offer........or even learning proper BFM/ACM mechanics and then paying this help one has received forward to other newcomers of this community is what it really is all about.....

when that lightbulb switch flips on in their heads, and they understand what all their elders / pillars before them have repeated continously without exhaustion of what should be expected of them..........this is how "this" community should be molded.....this is how it was molded in the past............and by God, this will be how it is going to be molded in the future........ I was thinking about a scripture........but will end with you throw out the bad seed from all of the good...so it does not infect the whole crop........carry on...... I am most certian everyone at some point in their Online Flight Sim Community time will "Get It"........it just takes some a longer time than most ...give or take 3 or 4 years <grin>

[Kev367th]

And again the excuse comes through..... Well they do it !!! 


If you don't do it, thats one

If you stop your squad from doing it, thats another 60

If you help stop the bishops from doing it, thats another 2000-3000 !

It has to start someplace. I work on it as a Rook, and try to spread the word here on the boards.

You can either man up and help clear up the problem, or you can be part of the problem, as always, its up to you.

Trawled or should that be trolled through 29 pages    -

Had a feeling that would come as an answer to Falcons post.

Same self appointed AH police with their "if you don't play the game my way, you're wrong".

Guess what - No-ones way of playing the game is more or less valid than ANYONE elses, including yours.

Is AH perfect - No.

Does HT fix what he considers problems - Yes, these problems you perceive existed in 2004 when I joined, guess what - they are still here.

Just remember one thing - All the players you are so fond of ridiculing contribute towards HT's funding for continued development of the game. Then again I guess you'd be more than happy if AH went back to what it was 10 years ago.

I will be returning to AH sometime in May, and I will play the game the way I WANT TO.
Not to yours, or anyone elses view of how they think it should be played.

@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is. It about FUN, whether thats furballing, GV'ing, buffs or however the person get his jollies, your way is not the be all and end all of AH.

Flame away

[Rich46yo]

That Bish B-24 mission to 73 in LWO yesterday made me giggle. I never saw so many perfectly good bombers falling from the sky. They started bailing right after their one hangar bang run where they probably dropped 8 1,000 lb bombs to drop a hangar. Then they still couldnt take the base.