Defining bad game-play

[Boxboy]

The game is about how I like to play it on my end of the computer, attempts by anyone save the producers of the game (who can change game play any day they like) to dictate how I or anyone else plays the game is an exercise in futillity (which is what I expect Dawgr was saying although with much more eloquence than me)

Self appointed community police (no matter how much they have done for the game) have no more rights than the guy who logs on for the first time today.

Filth called rightly, as least as far as I am concerned.

I can be on any given day totally different depending on my mood, but the game remains constant and is what it is.  If HTC decides to change it they will, if not they won't but they are the ones who live and die for real with this game.

[sethipus]

On a map where each side has several dozen bases, it hardly matters if a horde takes one, or even several.  Most hordes peter out within, say, 1-5 base takes.  In the end, I argue, it simply doesn't matter all that much.  And if a horde does make a push toward winning "the war", the worst that happens is that we go to a new map and do it all over again.  This is really not a big deal here.

Anyhow, if you dislike hordes so much, then look around the map, find a horde doing it's thing, and then up the biggest, baddest, meanest horde-stopping plane you can, and go try to stop them.  I find that to be great fun, actually, and it's true whether I succeed in helping to stop them or not.

It's always funny to see Steve broadcasting his taunts on 200 about how many hordelings he has racked up so far.  Now there's a guy who really gets into the hording spirit - from the side of the defenders.  He really thrives on it, and I'm sure enjoys breaking up horde attacks immensely.

Anyhow, I play a mix of fighters, GVs, bombing when I feel it's necessary, and so forth.  I play the game far too much, more than I should, and I find I encounter good dogfights, bad dogfights (get HOed by the inevitable LA-7 dweeb), good GV fights, bad GV fights (get constantly bombed by some dweeb in an A-20 while we're having a good tank battle), etc.  I see the whole spectrum of fighting styles over the hours I play, and I've come to appreciate that hey, that's the game.  This is the way it is, and I can either accept it and play within that context my own way, or I can whine and snivel about it, cancel my account, or whatever.  It's up to me to make what I will of it.

[thndregg]

This is what I get out of this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0

[moot]

Boxboy you realize that by giving your opinion you joined the community police?  The tangible effect of anything said on this forum is informative, not authoritative.  There's nothing forcing anyone to do what's written on a virtual forum.  The only way it will happen is if something picked up on the forum leads someone to agree, and there too it's still the reader/player that's making the decision to play one way or another.  

When you take a session with a trainer as a noob, you aren't forced to do anything, the trainer is just demonstrating some stuff for you, that you may or may not find to solve the problems you're having (e.g. "how do I saddle up on someone").  Arguing on this forum is the same.  Competing arguments will breed the fittest rationale, which is precursor to what people do in the game.  The assertion that telling players how to improve their tactics, strategies, ACM, SA, gunnery, etc, is imposing on people to play one way or another, is bogus.  If anything, it's excessive hording that imposes on other players' choices, namely by reducing the degree of freedom they have.  If the MA was 199 players in bish and 1 player in rooks, that'd be imposing and bad gameplay.  Just the same way, although to a less ridiculous degree and in roughly descending order, as 25 guys dogpiling on a single barely defended base, sinking a CV that fed a balanced furball that's strategically benign (e.g. in middle of nowhere - its only reason to exist is to furball), or 6+ guys dogpiling a single bandit, or one guy in a jet picking a 1:1, or stick stirring when one could just as well actually maneuver, or ... purposedly not saluting someone who definitely earned it.  
Exactly where you draw the line of "not fun anymore" is arbitrary, but it's certainly not relative and elastic enough that stick stirring for no reason and running away from any fight without a 5:1 advantage, or denying one guy trying to have a good time, etc, are all "good gameplay".

Anyhow, if you dislike hordes so much, then look around the map, find a horde doing it's thing, and then up the biggest, baddest, meanest horde-stopping plane you can, and go try to stop them.  I find that to be great fun, actually, and it's true whether I succeed in helping to stop them or not.

That's fine if you're capable of killing 5+ for everyone of your sorties. Is that what average players can expect?  Would you say the arena's keeping your attention more, that it's more fun if it's over 1/2 hording, than if it had reasonably even fights on the fronts?

[sethipus]

That's fine if you're capable of killing 5+ for everyone of your sorties. Is that what average players can expect?  Would you say the arena's keeping your attention more, that it's more fun if it's over 1/2 hording, than if it had reasonably even fights on the fronts?

I'm not sure I can answer that, but I will say that if you dislike a horde fight, wait a few minutes, because the gameplay is constantly changing.  Whatever's going on this very minute will likely not be what's going on in 15 or 20 minutes as different mobs form, do their thing, break up, move on, get replaced by different mobs, etc.

Anyhow, I don't know if the average player can expect to down 5+ planes in one sortie trying to break up a horde.  If it's them in an LA-7 against a horde in NOE 110g and some goons, then maybe, maybe not.  But that's no different than the chances of the "average" player beating an above average player in a 1v1 dogfight.  Half the players in this game fall into the lower 50% skillwise, which means, by definition, that for these players, more than half the players out there are going to beat them most of the time.  That's just the way it is.

[Boxboy]

Well Moot when I read a statement that is made as tho it is fact when indeed it is not fact I don't call that opinion, but rather an attempt to "force by inferance" a certain type of play.  I agree that all opinions should be able to be expressed, but unless HTC changes the game so that certain ways of playing are not accepted, then the game is what it is.

Some the things that are done in the game are IMHO "fixable" and some are not, running to ack has been around as long as there has been ack and planes, refusing a 1 v 1 can be sensible, etc etc etc.

When game play gets too silly I change arena's, as anyone can see my score sucks cause I seldom refuse a fight even when it's 5 or 6 v 1, but that doesn't mean it's smart or right it just means I don't give a hoot about score.

[DrDea]

 I think the real issue is this isnt just a gameplay issue.Its a people issue.
  Many enjoy the historical aspect of the game. They want to fly the planes in an accurate manner.
  Many more just want to play a game where they can quake air. Theres a lot no doubt still useing mom and dads credit card so its not even like their even gonna care.
 Face it,these 2 different styles will never meet in the middle.

[Anaxogoras]

Face it,these 2 different styles will never meet in the middle.

One of these styles has already won and doesn't need to meet in the middle.

[Dadsguns]

One of these styles has already won and doesn't need to meet in the middle.

Won what?

[VonMessa]

The boobie prize

[Dadsguns]

The boobie prize

 

This is where I see most people have trouble with separation.

This game is one situation, one community, one set of rules, either written, or implied. Other games are different, you mention some have much worst smack talking. That community allows that to happen, where this one either by ridicule, or by the MODs doesn't. The same goes with what "honor" is expected by its peers. This community is the one we are talking about, not the WoW server, nor the ELKS down on main street, Aces High. Like I was sayinig to Dawger, he might have been a top dog at warbirds, but here he is just another dweeb working his way into the community. Sure he might show better skills quicker, but ...from his post... he will use HO's and such which are frowned on here and he will be called out for it, why, because this community has its rules. It own type of honor.

BNZ was dead on in his post.

What I find most common in these threads is its based upon the few people and the few in the community that think they have some credit or carry some merit in the game.  Total BS. 

Your post above as an example: You even insult a new player by calling him a dweeb.
Is that the community rule and honor you speak of that we all follow to treat newcomers like that?  Hardly.  That community that thinks it thrives by conducting itself that way I will have no part of and therefore carry no weight with me.

If you haven't learned by now that your sole purpose in life no matter in this game or in real life is not to MAKE friends, but to CHOOSE friends.   If this community ever wants to make any improvement you have to treat people or the community by the means you would want to be treated.  Period.

[BnZs]

Fugi:
I think we agree on quite a few things in practice.

The difference between me and thee *in theory* is that if the "community" ever decided that HO'ing and hording every chance they got, or being insulting vulgarians on 200, etc, was the correct game-play, you would purportedly have to agree that this is the quite right/honorable/"double-plus good" way to play. After all, the "community" has spoken. (As I type this, I realize that the masses *have* spoken on these matters, and neither you nor me likes much of what they have to say. So much for communitarianism, aye Fugi?)

[Rich46yo]

Things that get me? 1, Bomb and Bailing. 2, Lanc-stuka'ing 3, PT boat up, launch, bailing 30X in a row 4, Stick stirring. 5, Endless teeny babble on range "I like the AH kids but c'mon", 6, The General act on range, "to include misc. whining and sniveling".

7, Is having a problem with somone in the game and then running here to the forum to snitch him out, "sometimes behind the cutesy illusion of a self-improvement thread". Ive had a few, or 6, real beauts with guys in the game but its between me and them. Dont come running to the forum to snitch. On occasion this place is like a High School girls locker room with the gossip.

[Steve]

Things that get me? 1, Bomb and Bailing. 2, Lanc-stuka'ing 3, PT boat up, launch, bailing 30X in a row 4, Stick stirring. 5, Endless teeny babble on range "I like the AH kids but c'mon", 6, The General act on range, "to include misc. whining and sniveling".

On occasion this place is like a High School girls locker room with the gossip.

Ya but sadly, it is without the gaggle of teenage girls running around in varying degrees of undress.  I'd much rather this WERE a high school girl's locker room.

[The Fugitive]

Fugi:
I think we agree on quite a few things in practice.

The difference between me and thee *in theory* is that if the "community" ever decided that HO'ing and hording every chance they got, or being insulting vulgarians on 200, etc, was the correct game-play, you would purportedly have to agree that this is the quite right/honorable/"double-plus good" way to play. After all, the "community" has spoken. (As I type this, I realize that the masses *have* spoken on these matters, and neither you nor me likes much of what they have to say. So much for communitarianism, aye Fugi?)

I would have to agree that its "their" community and I would no longer be part of it. I think that may be the main reason I'm so vocal on this stuff. I've seen it back when there was an unwriten code, and the majority of people who played, played the game as it was intended... as a combat simulation. Today it has gotten worst, and there is a lot of game play that is well ... lame. If it continues and gets worst to become "that HO'ing and hording every chance they got, or being insulting vulgarians on 200, etc, was the correct game-play" that I would have to leave the game I really enjoy playing.

BNZ was dead on in his post.

What I find most common in these threads is its based upon the few people and the few in the community that think they have some credit or carry some merit in the game.  Total BS. 

Your post above as an example: You even insult a new player by calling him a dweeb.
Is that the community rule and honor you speak of that we all follow to treat newcomers like that?  Hardly.  That community that thinks it thrives by conducting itself that way I will have no part of and therefore carry no weight with me.

If you haven't learned by now that your sole purpose in life no matter in this game or in real life is not to MAKE friends, but to CHOOSE friends.   If this community ever wants to make any improvement you have to treat people or the community by the means you would want to be treated.  Period.

We all start this game as a dweeb, Dawger is no different even tho he has a ton of experience in another game. That was the point I was trying to make. I treat everyone the same. I'll show anyone respect untill they prove they don't deserve it. I don't suffer fools gladly, nor do I put up with stupidity. Again, the purpose of this game has nothing to do with real life other than as an entertainment value.