The K/D now and then

[Obie303]

You may be over-thinking.
Players engage and shoot each other down in AH. Whether they fly Spit V or Spit XVI - in the end one of them is dead. And each period of AH had their specific "uber planes"

But my question is still this;  Was the playing field the same for everyone in Tour 24 or did the availability of new planes over the years possibly change the playing field for the new and less experienced players in Tour 111? 

Here's another example from my experience:  When I started (thinking back a few years now), I think I flew mainly Jugs and Ponies.  Now I fly mainly the Spit 9.  My k/d ratio was barely over 1.0% when I started.  Probably more like .75%.  Now, even though flying a "non-uber" plane, it's (usually) around 2.5%.  So what changed?   

This could be put to rest if we could see the break down of the plane kills in Tour 24 in comparison to now. 
I'm going to have a beer and think this over a bit more.  (I'm sure the wife will be thrilled to hear this one.)

<S> Lushe 

Obie

[Lusche]

Here's another example from my experience:  When I started (thinking back a few years now), I think I flew mainly Jugs and Ponies.  Now I fly mainly the Spit 9.  My k/d ratio was barely over 1.0% when I started.  Probably more like .75%.  Now, even though flying a "non-uber" plane, it's (usually) around 2.5%.  So what changed?   

Your skill.

[Motherland]

Look at it this way, If everyone is armed with knives, there will be a certain level of deaths.  Now arm those people with AK 47s.  Wouldn't the k/d ratio go up because of better tools to work with?

No, if anything it would go down.

[Steve]

One explanation could be that the skill levels of the players back then were all more closely matched. If ther was much less separation of skill levels, the average K/D would come down, or closer to 1.0... just a thought.

[bj229r]

In which tour did AH2 come out?

[475FG Savlan]

One explanation could be that the skill levels of the players back then were all more closely matched. If ther was much less separation of skill levels, the average K/D would come down, or closer to 1.0... just a thought.

I agree.  Think of it this way - when the game was newer, a greater number of players had the same level of experience which results in a player base closer in overall skill level.  As the game goes on and veterans remain and build skills, new players are now introduced to a game with a greater number of 'top guns' than the previous generation had to battle when they started out. On the downside, vets may detect a degradation in game quality from days gone by which could just be due to the game being larger and the talent pool diluted from when they started.  Add to that their years of experience and you may find some guys who no longer find things as challenging as they once did.

Its kinda like pro sports with expansion teams, longer seasons and expanded rosters compared to ballplayers of old.

[Crash Orange]

Interesting, Lusche. exactly what I had suspected from just looking at a few dozen raw numbers.

It does appear to confirm my suspicion that some folks here have an absurd notion of what constitutes "average".

Thanks for crunching the numbers!

[Lusche]

I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating minority of above-average players.


And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones

[Crash Orange]

I agree.  Think of it this way - when the game was newer, a greater number of players had the same level of experience which results in a player base closer in overall skill level.  As the game goes on and veterans remain and build skills, new players are now introduced to a game with a greater number of 'top guns' than the previous generation had to battle when they started out.

Right. So the median k/d should go down significantly. Since it hasn't, that indicates that the new players are at least as good if not better than those of 6 years ago - they're getting comparable scores against tougher opponents.

On the downside, vets may detect a degradation in game quality from days gone by which could just be due to the game being larger and the talent pool diluted from when they started.  Add to that their years of experience and you may find some guys who no longer find things as challenging as they once did.

They degradation they're seeing is only relative their own improvement. If "average" equals "about like me," then of course when you improve to where you're in the top 5%, 95% of pilots are going to be below average by your standard. But it's only your yardstick that's changed.

If you're on an invisible elevator going up, it would be easy to conclude that the rest of the world is going down, at least if you don't bother to think about it very hard.

Its kinda like pro sports with expansion teams, longer seasons and expanded rosters compared to ballplayers of old.

It's nothing whatsoever like that. Pro sports recruits are an elite pre-selected through an exacting system of farm, collegiate, and high school teams. If you were taking in the known top 1% and now you're getting the top 1% and the next 1%, the quality drops. AH2 has no such preselection; its intake always has been and always will be a random cross-section of the population screened only by interest in the subject matter and having been reached by advertising - which will have an insignificant effect on skill level.

Of course, none of this says anything about whether the quality of play has degraded.

[Crash Orange]

I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating majority of above-average players.

I assume you meant to say "dominating minority," but yes, exactly. And what you see so much of here is that minority whining and griping that the peasants are forgetting their place.

And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones

What? You mean they expect to have FUN?!?!?  That's just spoiled kids today expecting "instant gratification". They're not allowed to have fun until they've trained for five years to get as good as Steve and m00t. If we let them have fun, they'll have no motivation to improve!

[Lusche]

I assume you meant to say "dominating minority,"

oooops... yes of course

[Steve]

Right. So the median k/d should go down significantly. Since it hasn't, that indicates that the new players are at least as good if not better than those of 6 years ago - they're getting comparable scores against tougher opponents.

no no no  and no.  The veteran players who have stuck around now have higher K/d than they used to because there are a lot more easy targets around. Back when there was more parity, the players had a harder time excelling.

[PFactorDave]

I think I'm not exaggerating too much If I dare to say:
The average guys main function is to provide kills for the small, but dominating minority of above-average players.


And that's why the war game in AH is important for the game (and probably HTC's business): It gives all those majority "standard" players the opportunity to have fun and to get a feeling of success. A player may "suck" in aerial combat, but his constant efforts for his team (be it his squad only or his chesspiece country) may still help to secure victory in a battle. Not many players are masochistic enough to enjoy being shot down again and again without "achieving" anything.Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones

This is precisely what I believe.

+1     

[BnZs]

I assume you meant to say "dominating minority," but yes, exactly. And what you see so much of here is that minority whining and griping that the peasants are forgetting their place.

You know, this parallels the larger society...

The low used to resent their betters...and ape their manners, dress, and morals,  and otherwise do everything they could to join them.

Now the common preach being common as the highest virtue obtainable...in R/L and in-game.

[Murdr]

Those few that declare that the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting alone are usually the definitely above-average ones

Point of technicallity...

What may come off as "the sole source of fun and satisfaction should come from pure dogfighting" is likely not always the case, but more frustration from the number of players who are simply unwilling to engage in any kind of fight that is not ridiculously lopsided in their favor...which by the way isn't really a fight as far as I'm concerned.  The difference between now and then is that the population has polarized a bit.  There are sects of majority players that are more than happy to set and achive objectives with the least amount of resistance (read fighting) as possible.  Which is ok I guess, but then we have to listen to them pat themselves on the back for achiving what amounts to nothing while risking nothing.  What "those few" want is probably somewhere in the middle.  A little bit of effort to achive some individual skills, and some willingness to mix it up once in awhile instead of running from a co-alt dot before it even gets into icon range just because they don't have a horde there to back them up.  

Thing is that most of the guys doing the complaining are more than willing to help individuals learn.  Quite frankly the attitude from the other side toward those willing to help has been doing nothing but inflaming things.