Author Topic: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"  (Read 13902 times)

Offline Kazaa

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2009, 06:53:36 PM »
:lol :cry :lol Everyone has to read my post.

The SpitXVI is better than the IX in every way...forgive me if I chuckle a bit when you claim RAF fans need the absolute *best* Spit in the hangar to compete in the MA.

Another unsupported, random comment....

Did you happen to forget about this? Below is my best three tours in the XVI and IX. (K/D ratio wise)

Spitfire Mk. XVI.

Tour 90: K/D =13
Tour 102: K/D = 12.11
Tour 111: K/D = 11.87

Spitfire Mk. IX.

Tour 82: K/D=13
Tour 105: K/D=13
Tour 96: K/D= 12

Your personal K/D is irrelevant.


Earth to BnZs, I’m showing you that I’m able to get the same exact amount of kills in an IX then I can in the XVI. :cool: It’s quite relevant to this thread.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 06:57:56 PM by Kazaa »



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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2009, 06:59:06 PM »
Having the Spixteen as the dominant fighter is actually preferable to having the La-7 as the dominate fighter - while the Spixteen renders most other planes irrelevant, whereas the La-7 is double superior to just about everything other than the Spits.

Then why not perk them both. :D



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Offline Belial

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2009, 07:13:56 PM »
Wow 9 pages of whine that even beats my I got bombed tirades!  Spit16 isn't that scary unless someone from The Few is flying it.



Perk the Jeep! :eek:

Offline Steve

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2009, 07:30:21 PM »
He's unpleasant because he is logical. 

Ahh bullnoodles.  He's unpleasant because he's a turd.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2009, 07:40:43 PM »
BnZ, you are absolutely right in saying the Spixteen renders the vast majority of the planeset irrelevant. 

How exactly? You mention nice textbook phrases like double superior.  If it is so superior, why isn't it dominating the arena buy a decisive edge?
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #125 on: May 10, 2009, 07:53:31 PM »
How exactly? You mention nice textbook phrases like double superior.  If it is so superior, why isn't it dominating the arena buy a decisive edge?
I think its reputation as a dweeb plane (and that many people simply like to fly things taht are more challenging) probably pushes the usage down.

Offline crazyivan

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #126 on: May 10, 2009, 08:00:17 PM »
Find a good spot and let the boys come to you.
  So thats your dirty little secret. :lol
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Offline E25280

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #127 on: May 10, 2009, 08:46:17 PM »
I have stated my reason for saying the XVI should be perked...to increase the viability of a wide variety of fighters in the MA. I think when X fighter completely outclasses enough other fighters, it should be considered for perkage. That is what makes sense to me. You say I want it perked because it effects my personal k/d ratio or the like. That is false. Further, it is a malicious lie with no relevancy to the discussion at hand.
WTH does "increase the viability of a wide variety of fighters" mean?  The Spixteen is not the most used aircraft now.  It's K/D ratio is good but not even at the top of non-perked fighters.  That would seem to show that there is already a wide variety of aircraft that are perfectly viable in the MAs.

I think Lusche had it correct on page 1.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #128 on: May 10, 2009, 08:48:52 PM »
Okay Steve, you are a nice enough guy under most circumstances. I can give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you weren't trying to say "You just want the Spit16 perked because you suck!" or some such ultra melontery. I'm afraid I'm not a good enough person much of the time to suppress my tendency to throw a nuke back when some idiot in the peanut gallery lobs a spitball...

First, I've tried to tell you, saying a plane "helps noobs compete" is irrelevant. The F4U-4 would help noobs compete,  boy would it ever, since it can run down practically anything and turn as well or better than practically anything. And hey,hardcore F4U fans need the -4 because too many LW birds can just use their superior acceleration to "stroll away" from the F4U-1 series...see why this argument doesn't work now? You can say the F4U is superior to a greater portion of the plane set than the SpitXVI, which is fair, but that makes it only a difference of degree.

To answer your question, I think I can say that I could go into a duel against 85% of the MA using most any plane type and win. I think I am decent enough in skills and knowledgeable enough in what makes an airplane work well as a fighter to make the judgement about what has the edge in a maneuvering fight, and it only takes reading a chart to know which is fast enough to force that maneuvering fight on other planes. Basically, in my own observation, there are planes which are just as bad/worse to have on your close six, but none of them have nearly the performance and other advantages of the Spit16. Way I see it, if you are in P-47D for example and screw up, loose too much E and get a HurriIIC, Zeke, or even a N1K on your six close enough for the kill, that is your fault. You could clearly have avoided the situation with the correct decision making. But what is the clear solution when the plane that climbs better, turns better, and rolls better is ALSO faster? Answer, there isn't one except to hope the pilot in it absolutely sucks enough to fall for a trick and has no friends to help him. And any pilot who *thinks* realizes that the slower, double-inferior plane's only hope is a trick, so he prepares for it.

Your P-51D is an example of the type of plane that should *not* be presented any insurmountable problems by the Spit16, since the P-51D 20+mph faster. Your P-51D is not something I am talking about when I say the SpitXVI presents viability problems for many planes in the LW MA. I think if the P-51D was 10mph slower, even the History Channel couldn't make it as popular as it is now in the LW MA...not with SpitXVIs around. If the SpitXVI was 10mph slower, I wouldn't think it needed perking. I have the feeling that if it were 10mph faster though, the same people would still be saying to me: "What? Its not all that fast! It's the only competitive Spit we got! You just hate Spits!". When in reality, if the SpitfireXVI was the P-62, or the Bf-209, or the Mitsubishi A9M, etc., I'd still say the perk the thing, because my opinion is based on relative performance in-game, not irrelevancies like nationality or personal preference.

I know. It helps noobs compete. Why does this bother you?? What do you care if people want to fly it?  I believe I can answer this for you, since you won't answer it honestly: you are having trouble beating them with your chosen ride... maybe in any ride. I thought you flew the 51 some. I will only speak for this plane since I can't remember specific spixteen encounters I've had in other planes.

I log in, then I up on the team with the fewest numbers and head for the biggest enemy darbar I can find.  When I get there I am somewhere between 8 and 10k AGL. In that pile of bad guys will be several spixteens, some higher, some lower. I don't count them as any more dangerous than most other planes with comparable E states. In other words, they do nothing to unbalance the fight. I do OK against spixteens even under these circumstances. So why perk them? No unbalance= no need for a perk.

I don't know who put a bottle in your rectum then kicked you in the butt  so hard that it broke but you are a real unpleasant person to have a discussion with. I asked a question so I could try to understand your perspective. Maybe you are just one of those people who isn't happy unless they are arguing or insulting.


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Offline bj229r

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #129 on: May 10, 2009, 08:52:39 PM »

Hrmmm? When I was dive testing them, the La has elevator stiffness somewhere in the 400s. The spit16 does not. That much I remember. I will check what TAS they compress at.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #130 on: May 10, 2009, 08:52:45 PM »

. The F4U-4 would help noobs compete,  

Yes it would, but we already have a plane to fill that role, the spixteen.    :)
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #131 on: May 10, 2009, 08:55:22 PM »


Can you please reply to my post on page 8?  I'm curious to get your thoughts.

Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #132 on: May 10, 2009, 09:02:28 PM »
WTH does "increase the viability of a wide variety of fighters" mean?  The Spixteen is not the most used aircraft now.  It's K/D ratio is good but not even at the top of non-perked fighters.  That would seem to show that there is already a wide variety of aircraft that are perfectly viable in the MAs.

I think Lusche had it correct on page 1.

E25290:
Tell you what. Do your own research this time. Look at the list of planes that are basically as slow or slower than the SpitXVI. Out of the "slower-than" list, figure out the ones that are clearly out-turned by the SpitXVI. Don't bother with figuring out the ones that are out-climbed and out-accelerated, IIRC it will be all of them or very near it. Don't bother trying to figure out which ones are out-rolled either, it will be all of them that are not members of the Fw-190 series. And there the roll advantage is not great. No, just figure out exactly how many are both too slow to avoid the SpitXVI and have a serious disadvantage against it in a knife fight. If, after you do this, you don't understand what I mean by "effects the viability of many fighters in the MA", then I can't help you.

BTW, since you brought up the fact that the SpitXVI is only the 2nd most popular fighter, behind the P-51D, you should do similar research on the Pony. Wait, I can save you the trouble. IIRC, out of the planes slower than the P-51D, only the Fw-190As and F are clearly out-performed in all aspects of the turn. Before anyone mentions it, the Ta-152 retains energy better under Gs and sustains a superior rate of turn vs. the P-51D. And the P-51 is not superior in climb, acceleration, or *greatly* superior in turn compared to the 190 A-5 at typical MA alts. Further, the P-51 is out-rolled by and is less lethal in firepower than the 190As and F. Once again, if you can't see the difference between this and the situation with many planes vs. the SpitXVI, I can't help you.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #133 on: May 10, 2009, 09:08:16 PM »

Earth to BnZs, I’m showing you that I’m able to get the same exact amount of kills in an IX then I can in the XVI. :cool: It’s quite relevant to this thread.

Not, it is not relevant at all. What it shows is that at some point in the past some individual got the same numbers in a IX as he got in an XVI, numbers which involve many unknown and unknowable factors. It says nothing about the relative performance of the machines.  If you want to get real crazy, look at the way the P-38J k/d has been some tours...it has been at the top of non-perks, or very close. Going by your "logic", that would mean the P-38J is in fact superior to all non-perked planes. Including the almost identical but slightly better (boosted ailerons and dive flaps!) P-38L!!! Clearly this is not a logically sound argument, although it is an excellent use of any available excuse to strut about one's score. :rolleyes:
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline BnZs

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Re: Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"
« Reply #134 on: May 10, 2009, 09:12:57 PM »
Can you please reply to my post on page 8?  I'm curious to get your thoughts.

All I can say is that your conviction that a light perk price (3-5 is what I was thinking of) will do nothing to reduce SpitXVI numbers is incorrect IMO.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."