Myth: SpitXVI is "slow"

[E25280]

. . . but that shouldn't blind you to reason regarding relative performance.

IMO it is you who is acting blind in this thread.

So many words, and you still miss the point . . .

The Spixteen is killed by all other planes almost as often as it kills all other planes.  Meaning, whatever advantages it has A) can be overcome B) are not so large as to make pilot skill irrelevant and/or C) has offsetting disadvantages that you are not accounting for.

If it was so clearly and absolutely superior to all the other non-perked aircraft in the game, we would see them to a larger degree than we do.

[Anaxogoras]

Yep.  Tempests are easy kills in the DA pond.  So are F4U-4s.  Since most pilots can't fly them to their full potential, they shouldn't be perked.  QED.

[Lusche]

Yep.  Tempests are easy kills in the DA pond.  So are F4U-4s.  Since most pilots can't fly them to their full potential, they shouldn't be perked.  QED.

And guess what? They are not perked. In the DA pond. 

[Anaxogoras]

I've also killed plenty of Tempests with lesser planes in the main arena.  F4U-4s, Chogs and Spit XIVs too.

Lusche, think about it... The DA was the used example because that's where those aircraft are free.

The point is, and this has been well established in many threads, pilot ability is distinct from perk worthiness.

[Lusche]

The DA pond is a completely different combat environment than the MA. Different player base, different tactics, different strategies. No war to be won. No goon hunt. No intercepting NOE's or cutting through the escorts to get the Buffs that are about to flatten your base or sink your CV. No score on the main page. Or, as you like to say: Apples & Oranges. ,)
You can't transfer what's happenign there 1:1 to the MA, just like you can't take LWMA gameplay experience as a yardstick to measure / perk /setup  the AvA arena.

And when BnZ is saying:

The Tempest in average hands is good for little besides a pick-n-run racer with somewhat difficult handling and mediocre maneuverability...it doesn't cover flaws in piloting to near the extent the SpitXVI does.

he wrong. The Tempest does cover flaws on piloting MUCH more than a Spit XVI could ever do. Insane acceleration and top speed means he can simply get away where the 16 pilot is forced to fight his way out. And on top of that, maybe the best armament the game has to offer...
Actually "ood for little besides a pick-n-run racer with somewhat difficult handling and mediocre maneuverability" I would have accepted for the Typhoon maybe , but never for the Tempest.

[Anaxogoras]

Running away counts as covering up flaws?  We really do speak a different language.

[Lusche]

Running away counts as covering up flaws?  We really do speak a different language.

Yes we are. I'm talking about the MA, how people do actually fly and actually use planes there.

[BnZs]

The DA pond is a completely different combat environment than the MA. Different player base, different tactics, different strategies. No war to be won. No goon hunt. No intercepting NOE's or cutting through the escorts to get the Buffs that are about to flatten your base or sink your CV. No score on the main page. Or, as you like to say: Apples & Oranges. ,)
You can't transfer what's happenign there 1:1 to the MA, just like you can't take LWMA gameplay experience as a yardstick to measure / perk /setup  the AvA arena.

And when BnZ is saying:


he wrong. The Tempest does cover flaws on piloting MUCH more than a Spit XVI could ever do. Insane acceleration and top speed means he can simply get away where the 16 pilot is forced to fight his way out. And on top of that, maybe the best armament the game has to offer...
Actually "ood for little besides a pick-n-run racer with somewhat difficult handling and mediocre maneuverability" I would have accepted for the Typhoon maybe , but never for the Tempest.

'
??? The Tempest has torque issues similar to the K-4, only in the direction opposite of "normal". It's roll rate is not that good, particularly against torque, and it is middle-of-the-road in turn radius. It is dominating when used well as an E-fighter, which puts the average pilot out of the race right there. Awesome performance, awesome firepower, difficult handling.

Someone running away from you in a Tempest is clearly superior to someone shooting you in a SpitXVI.

[BnZs]

Yes we are. I'm talking about the MA, how people do actually fly and actually use planes there.

Okay, how about this: In the MA, average players in Tempests or any other b'n'z planes making 450mph passes aren't actually very dangerous to anyone who keeps their heads on a swivel.

[Krusty]

Eagle, bnzs, the spit16 and spit8 are the exact same flight model... The engine is the same, the performance charts almost identical. As mentioned the ONLY difference being one has clipped wings (however the wing tanks on the 8 offset the extra lift from the wingtips, so the end result is a wash). The 303s vs 50cals is NOT a major factor in the plane. If the spit16 had 4x303s it would still have as much use as it does today. The main killer remains and will always be 240 rounds of 20mm Hispano rounds.

The only real difference being rate of roll between the two models. That said, the 8 is no slouch. It's not like it's a BAD roller. It's still more manuverable than 85% of the planeset.


And no, 5 mph is not enough of a difference to warrant a perk discussion. The overall performance package is.

[Karnak]

Now it is too slow for LW MA play though? 

A lot of really fast aircraft have been added since then.  Back then "fast" meant Bf109G-10 (Bf109K-4 in disguise), P-51D or the unresponsive Typhoon Mk Ib.  Long range gunnery was also much more effective due to the way AH1 calculated hits vs how AH2 does it, which allowed the Spit IX a much better chance at popping boom and zoomers as the egressed.

[Karnak]

BnZs,

Krusty is well known for his loathing of British aircraft.  Nothing he says is honest about them and he always has an ulterior motive in regards to them.

[Kazaa]

Doesn't Krusty fly for the 71st RAF? 

[Guppy35]

Eagle, bnzs, the spit16 and spit8 are the exact same flight model... The engine is the same, the performance charts almost identical. As mentioned the ONLY difference being one has clipped wings (however the wing tanks on the 8 offset the extra lift from the wingtips, so the end result is a wash). The 303s vs 50cals is NOT a major factor in the plane. If the spit16 had 4x303s it would still have as much use as it does today. The main killer remains and will always be 240 rounds of 20mm Hispano rounds.

The only real difference being rate of roll between the two models. That said, the 8 is no slouch. It's not like it's a BAD roller. It's still more manuverable than 85% of the planeset.


And no, 5 mph is not enough of a difference to warrant a perk discussion. The overall performance package is.

So the roll rate is what this is about.  The 190 drivers aren't happy one of their advantages isn't as pronouced vs a Spit 16.  All the rest of the talk is just smoke.  Same performance as the 8 except roll rate and the mph difference from clipped wings.

Well there goes my Spit XII right out the window

[Bronk]

Well there goes my Spit XII right out the window

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!