Coral Sea Information Thread

[oneway]

Fairly decent overview of the Coral Sea Battle including the number of planes launched and recovered from both sides....

When I heard it might be Coral Sea I started studying about the battle...these are good starting points for anyone who is interested in learning more...

One of the most notable facts surrounding the battle of Coral Sea was it was the first time that the entire naval battle was conducted out of visual range of one another. Coral Sea marked the end of the surface to surface ship engagements that dominated naval warfare for centuries and was the true dawn of the Carrier based naval task force.

As a result, Coral Sea was one of the most disorganized naval efforts in the history of modern conflict. Both sides maintained radio silence between task groups resulting in chaotic movement of forces and a less than decisive outcome. This set the stage for Midway which occurred 1 month later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea

http://www.users.bigpond.com/pacificwar/Battle_Coral_Sea.html

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/coral_sea/doc.asp




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[oneway]

United States 5th Air Force Group activity log for May 1942

Saturday, 2 May, 1942
8th Photographic Squadron, 5th Air Force (attached to Allied Air Forces), transfers from Brisbane to Townsville, Australia with F-4's; first mission was 16 April.

Monday, 4 May, 1942
B-26's bomb Vunakanau Airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island. P-39's and B-17's hit the airfield at Lae, New Guinea. HQ 27th Bombardment Group (Light) and 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light) transfer without personnel and equipment from Batchelor Field and Charters Towers, Australia to Hunter Field, Savannah, Georgia. The units will be remanned and equipped and fight in the Mediterranean.

Thursday, 5 May, 1942
28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Cloncurry to Longreach, Australia with B-17's; a detachment is operating from Perth, Australia.

Wednesday, 6 May, 1942
B-17's unsuccessfully attack shipping in the Bougainville Island, Solomon Islands area. Corregidor Island in Manila Bay, Philippine Islands surrenders. All US organized resistance to the Japanese in the Philippines ends. The air and ground echelons of the following AAF units are killed or captured; the units are carried as active units without personnel until 2 Apr 46: 24th Pursuit Group (Interceptor); 2d Observation Squadron (Medium); 3d, 17th, 20th, 21st and 34th Pursuit Squadrons (Interceptor); 14th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy); Most of the ground echelon of the following units were killed or captured: V Bomber Command; 5th Interceptor Command (Provisional) ; 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) ;27th Bombardment Group (Light); 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light); 28th, 30th and 93d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy).

Thursday, 7 May, 1942
Battle of the Coral Sea, which began on 4 May, approaches its climax as Allied naval forces intercept Japanese naval forces near Misima Island, New Guinea. US Navy (USN) dive bombers sink the aircraft carrier Shoho. Allied forces lose the destroyer USS SIMS (DD-409). Allied Air Force bombers join the battle but their effect is limited; several bombers attack Allied vessels by mistake.

Friday, 8 May, 1942
Main action of Battle of the Coral Sea occurs as Allied and Japanese carrier forces clash. Allied bombers join USN aircraft in attacking the enemy's main support force which has around the S of San Cristobal Island, Solomon Islands. The aircraft carrier Shokaku is severely damaged by aircraft from the carriers USS Lexington (CV-2) and USS Yorktown (CV-5). USS Lexington is damaged so severely that it later is sunk by USN fire. USS Yorktown also suffers damage from aircraft. Both sides lose heavily in aircraft, US losses totalling 66 and the Japanese considerably more. The Allies turn back the sea assault against Port Moresby, a key base in New Guinea and of great importance to the security of Australia. The battle is the first major naval engagement in history in which the opposing warships do not exchange a shot. The Coral Sea battle marks the end of the period in which the Allied forces in the SWPA are only on the defensive and paves the way for offensive operations. The reconnaissance work of the AAF proves of greater importance than its bombardment operations, which have no real effects on the battle. Lack of USN-AAF coordination is apparent from the Coral Sea action, and this eventually leads to better interservice communication.

Saturday, 9 May, 1942
8 B-26's and a single B-17 attack shipping and seaplanes at Deboyne Island, New Guinea. 8th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 3d Bombardment Group (Light), transfers from Port Moresby, New Guinea to Charters Towers, Australia with A-20's; combat operations continue.

Sunday, 10 May, 1942
B-25's bomb the seaplane base at Deboyne Island, New Guinea. 80th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), 8th Pursuit Group (Interceptor), transfers from Lowood to Petric, Australia with P-39's and P-400's; first mission is 22 July.

Monday, 11 May, 1942
B-17's attack Kessa in the N Solomon Islands while B-26's hit the seaplane base at Deboyne Island, New Guinea.

Wednesday, 13 May, 1942
B-17's and B-26's hit shipping and the airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island. 30th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Cloncurry to Longreach, Australia with B-17's.

Thursday, 14 May, 1942
B-17's, B-26's and B-25's attack Rabaul, New Britain Island and Lae, New Guinea.

Saturday, 16 May, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25's, B-26's and and B-17's hit the airfield and storehouses at Lae and seaplane base at Deboyne Island. 64th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Sidney to Daly Waters, Australia with B-17's.

Monday, 18 May, 1942
B-17's bomb shipping in Koepang Bay, Timor Island. HQ 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy)  transfers from Garbutt Field to Longreach, Australia with B-17's. Detachment of 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), ceases operating from Perth and returns to Longreach, Australia with B-17's

Wednesday, 20 May, 1942
B-17's attack the airfield and AA guns at Koepang, Timor Island.

Thursday, 21 May, 1942
B-26's bomb aircraft at Lae, New Guinea.

Friday, 22 May, 1942
B-17's pound the airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island while B-26's hit the airfield at Lae, New Guinea and attack shipping in the harbor.

Saturday, 23 May, 1942
B-25's strike the airfield and buildings at Lae, New Guinea.

Sunday, 24 May, 1942
B-26's attach Lae Airfield, New Guinea, but heavy AA and at least 15 intercepting Zekes prevent accurate bombing. Several of the B-26's are shot down or badly damaged and forced to crashland.

Monday, 25 May, 1942
B-17's bomb Vunakanau Airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Wednesday, 27 May, 1942
B-17's bomb the base at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Thursday, 28 May, 1942
B-26's attack the airfield at Lae, New Guinea.

Sunday, 31 May, 1942
B-17's attack Lae and Salamaua, New Guinea.

[Fencer51]

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/coral_sea/coral_sea.html

Check this out, it has the original design and Brooke's AARs.

[oneway]

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/coral_sea/coral_sea.html

Check this out, it has the original design and Brooke's AARs.

Bummer...the Event Description link leads to a ton of broken links...no info there...

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/coral_sea/rules.htm

We need to let Brooke know so he can re-index that information...

Paging Brooke...

1Way

I stand corrected the information is there...just the intra page bookmarks in the contents is broken...

Reading now....

I think we can modify the previous running to include the AAF...but I am biased....

Quote from the original rules page...

To those esteemed historians who would like the include the Japanese occupation of Tulagi, or the AAF bombing of the Port Moresby Invasion forces, my humble apologies.

It is a matter of fact that on May 5 the 17's did drop bombs on Shoho but missed, and on May 6 B-26's found Shoho and stood on station without ordinance for more than 1 hour attempting the vector in 17's via beacon/rdf...

Of course Yorktown and Lexington dive bombers and torpedo planes did kill Shoho..however the AAF was a player in the game...especially in bombing of the Morseby invasion force and it was Fletcher who cajoled Macarthur into sending his long range land based aircraft from Austrailia

It would be nice to see this iteration of Coral go a step beyond a the straight up CV v CV dual and include land based long range aircraft in this running. AAF aircraft were performing long ranged ground based strikes on strat throughout the Coral Sea battle on island bases behind enemy lines...

[Ponyace]

I think we can modify the previous running to include the AAF...but I am biased....

Same here.
Ive  been doing a little bit of research, and it appears that the 8th FG operated out of Port Moresby, New Guinea during the same period the attempted Japanese invasion occured.

Heres a few links I could fine:

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/chron/42apr.htm
http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/chron/42may.htm

Both links show that P-39s were active in New Guinea during the battle. On the first one, it even says that P-39s attacked Lai from Port Morseby, New Guinea on April 30, 1942, 4 days before the battle.

These links show a brief summary of the P-39 equipped 8th Fighter Group and two of its three squadrons: the 35th and 36th Fighter Squadron.

8th Fighter Group:
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/8pursuit.htm

35th Fighter Squadron:
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/35thsqn.htm

36th Fighter Squadron:
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/36thsqn.htm

Lastly, a few small sources from a book I got during the Tunisia scenario: P-39 Airacobra Aces of World War 2 by George Mellinger and John Stanaway:

"P-39s of the USAAF's 8th PG (all pursuit groups were redesignated fighter groups in May 1942) were being loaded aboard transport ships on the west coast of America, bound for the frontline in eastern New Guinea. Off-load in Australia during the first week of March 1942, the aircraft had been quickly reassembled and sent to Brisbane, in Queensland. The following month, the first detachments of P-39s from the 35th and 36th PSs deployed north to frontline at Port Morseby

Also from the book, P-39 Airacobra Aces of World War 2:

"The month of May 1942 was a decisive one in the defence of New Guinea, and the northern Australian coast. Early in the month, the Australian-bound invasion fleet was turned back during the Battle of the Coral Sea, while P-39s accounted for nearly 20 enemy aircraft during the ongoing defence of Port Moresby; 12 we lost in return"



Finally, For those who say, "But there aren't any reports of P-39s attacking Japanese task forces, or even participating in the battle", the Americans were able to sink the Shoho and turn the invasion force away from Port Moresby long before there was a chance of capturing Port Morseby. If it had actually come down to an invasion, like it will in the scenario, then there is little doubt, at least in my mind,  that the 8th Fighter Group would have been active in the battle

Think about it: How many of you would sit around playing cards while a force that wants to capture the airfield your stationed at is only 20-30 miles off shore?

This should be more than enough proof that there should be at least a few USAAF fighter stationed at Port Morseby, if only to provide defense against the Japanese invasion force. Besides, the P-39 would probably not be a major factor in the carrier battle that will take place in the Coral Sea due to its short legs.

So, can I have my P-39 Airacobra now?

[fudgums]

I think there will be changes in the design.  Remember the p39 wasn't here in 2005 and IIRC the b25 as well

[Krusty]

Ki67 can fly faster level than most of those fighters can dive!

B-26 is so heavily defended that comparing it to a PBy is a laugh, as well.

Other than that (I'd change the planes subbing in) I think it's still a good setup.


As for P-39s, the emphasis is on naval battles where CVs and their planes attacked each other. While we DO have P-39s in-game now, it's really kinda outside the spirit of the battle, IMO.

[Ponyace]

I think there will be changes in the design.  Remember the p39 wasn't here in 2005 and IIRC the b25 as well

Exactly, which is why I want it now

I just posted that info for proof and persuasion. Port Moresby, right now, is completely undefended if the write-up is left alone. Historically, that was not true. The 8th FG would have defended Port Moresby vigoursly. Based on what I've seen from the AAR of Brookes, Port Moresby needs something for defense, and the P-39s of the 8th FG would be a perfect fit. This would also force a little bit more planning for those attacking Port Moresby

Edited:
Krusty,
It is true that the main focus is and should be on the CV battle of Coral Sea. Im not trying to argue that.

However, there is also a requirement, though small, to capture Port Moresby. There is no fighter, bomber, or even PT force that is dedicated to its defence as of now. However, the Japanese has a small force of A6Ms and B5Ns that can be used to assult Port Moresby from the Shoho as part of the invasion force, as well as unlimited CV shells, LVTA4s, and PT boats that can spawn from it.

That is why I think there needs to be a small squad at Port Moresby, even if you limit them to to the left of the Vertical 9 line to keep them out of the CV battle.

[ROC]

Settle down guys, we've done this one before

Port Moresby is vital to the whole concept, and no one wants to sit around for 45 minutes doing nothing waiting for the opposing forces to get in place.  Fleet movement into position to attack while the defending fleet positions itself is quite an important part of this.

Remember, this is a side switch event.  2 sides as allied, 2 sides as ijn.  Both teams get the benefit of the strengths and weaknesses of both setups.

Anyone going into this one is going to sign up for a Team, not a country.  And I can assure you, one side can win both, it's been done, it's all about team and strategy, nothing else.

[Ponyace]

Im not trying to encite discord, just wanting a small defense force of 6-8 P-39s over Port Moresby and citing the 8th FG as an excellent choice for that due to their being stationed there. After all, Port Moresby IS an important target in this scenario; Shouldnt it be defended as such with a fighter group that would have been stationed there, however small?

I understand that this is a switching event, perhaps adding another squadron of A6M2s or D3As of equal strength on the Shoho or from a land base such as Lae for the Japanese team would balance the event.

As for time period, There will most likely be action at Port Morseby at some time, and I don't mind flying 45 min or even an hour if I then get to fight the whole Japanese Navy in an attempt to thwart their evil plans to capture Port Moresby.
(Or Vice-versa )

Also, if Subs (PTs) and recon boats are willing to fly for 3 hours without bombing and doing everything to avoid being seen while trying to see what the enemy is doing, then Im willing to stand by while the enemy moves into position. Just gives the defenders more time to set up the perfect defence of Morseby

Just my two cents, but I think it would be fun and interesting using a little variation in the set-up, but still historically plausible.

[ROC]

Port Morseby is not an important target, it is the objective of the event.

IJN makes an attempt to invade it, US heads out to prevent it's invasion or take it back if they accomplish it.

You can't do this by having defense already in place, it changes the entire event.

There will be an opportunity to get a defense of port moresby in place, should the team tasked with that duty manage to get their ducks lined up in time, That is the core foundation of the event.  Going into it much farther will simply give opposing teams an idea on how to do it, and I simply won't explain it to them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't chime in, but at least wait for the initial design to come out before everyone starts redrafting the thing.

[Have]

While waiting for the scenario you can familiarize yourself into the historical situation and to all the big picture variables with the War In The Pacific strategy game (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/294/details/War.In.The.Pacific). While the full blown campaign of the game is hugely time consuming and complex, there is a smaller South Pacific '42 campaign in it and that is a very good starting point for a new gamer. After playing that campaign you will really understand the circumstances of the Battle of the Coral Sea.

Highly addictive 'just one more turn' and highly recommended! 

[Ponyace]

Alright, Ill shut up

Just basing my assumptions on the rules from the last Coral Sea rule sheet, and Im not trying to get into a fight or anything. With or without a defense at Port Moresby at the begining, it should still be a fun scenario.

Looking foward to it.
 

[Ponyace]

Probably should clarify,
Ill shut up till the rules are posted, THEN Ill post my 2 cents 

Probably should have been more clear on that   

[Roscoroo]

Its a Really good Scenario Ponyace ... We've just been waiting for the right time to rerun it.

most likely we will adjust the planeset, ships and Bribe Mother nature into some Cool weather effects...