OK I have a couple of problems, when I come in on another plane and he does his break turn and I pull up and when I'm coming back over the top I have a feeling this is the wrong thing because it usually ends up bad for me. And I don't have a clue how I can have a clear E advantage on some planes and they do there break turn, then reverses and they still have the E to take a lead shot and I'm at the top of my climb in to stall range. But if I dive in on them and stay level after my pass I can run clear away from them, so I have the speed (energy) to pull away from them in level flight, but with the same energy and I can't get away by going vertical.
And I'm talking about being in the p-38, never happens in the F4U.
Without a film, this is somewhat of a speculation, but...
When that guy does his "break turn", and you zoom up, how hard are you making him break? How much E is he really losing there? And how hard are you pulling up? How much E are you losing when you do?
Just to jump to the "worst-case" example. Low, E-conscious pilot, vs a high, not-so-E-conscious pilot. High guy dives in...
If the lower guy is paying attention he can start his break a little early, which allows him to make his "break turn" pretty gently, nowhere near a blackout, and very slightly nose-down, so he really isn't losing much speed at all. He may even gain a bit of speed, although he'll lose some alt (not much, I'm not talking about him diving away...). This isn't really a break-turn at all, and has a slight E-penalty, which is good for the low guy. He'll safely dodge the shot, without losing much E...
High guy sees the "break turn", and pulls hard to zoom back up.
If he's pulling hard to zoom back up, especially if he's going into partial black-out, and especially if his initial dive takes him below the level of the defensive pilot, he's giving up lots of E. IMO, diving below the enemy pilot is bad, since you're wasting E (speed/zoom)
just to get back up to the "lower" guys altitude...
What's the result so far? The higher pilot has scrubbed a bunch of E, and the lower guy has retained the majority of his... The E-disparity isn't as bad as it was initially, and the lower guy is making the fight much more "equal", (and it's only been one pass...)
Now, here's what often happens in my fights from a low position like this... I reverse early, saving my E. The high guy blows a lot of E in his dive, and zooms up. If he's not careful when he zooms, he may give me a "corner" to cut across. He's zooming, but either at an angle that allows me to reach him with a shorter, (but vertical) climb, or else he's zooming vertically, but off to one side, which allows me to fly an angled climb to "cut across" the gap... This can happen after two or three dive attacks by the high plane,
or after his initial attack, depending on the individual situation.
For the lower plane to follow the higher plane up, there's some risk of a "rope" of course. But, if the lower guy is good at reading E, the risk can be minimal. Going up after the guy to shoot him at the top of his zoom may actually be safer than allowing the fight to drag out another 30 seconds...
Another concept at work in these situations is "useful altitude". I forget exactly how Shaw described it, so bear with me. Useful alt (in my mind at least) is the altitude that a plane has enough speed to be under adequate control to manuever well. So, if you're at 10k, but only flying at 50mph, you'll need to dive to regain enough speed to manuever. That may take let's say 2000ft. Your current alt may be 10k, but your "useful alt" may be only 8k. Conversely, if your at 8k but flying at 400mph, you can easily climb to 10k, and still be fast enough to manuever well. In that case, you're currently at 8k, with a "useful alt" of 10k. See the difference?
Now, back to the first example. The lower guy may start at 6k, with a useful alt of 6k (we'll, make it easy). The higher guy starts at 10k, with a 10k useful alt. If the lower guy does his gentle "break turn" slightly nose-down, and picking up speed, he may exit the turn at 5k, but still have a useful alt of
6k. The high guy dives in and pulls his E-robbing, high-G zoom, and bounces back up to say 9k, where he (near-stall)(worst-case example to clarify the situation) reverses for another dive. What's happened here? The high guy is reversing from his zoom at 9k, but slow. What's his useful alt? It's lower... Maybe only
7K when all is said and done... The fight started with a 4k "useful alt" disparity, which has already been reduced to a 1k disparity. Bad news for the "high guy". He's well on his way to being killed, and probably doesn't realize it yet. He has the advantage after all, right?
What if the process repeats? It's actually possible for the low guy to have a higher "useful alt" than the "high" guy, especially if this repeats, or if the beginning useful alts aren't so different at the start. What happens if the high guy zooms, when the low guy has a higher useful alt? The low guy kills the high guy. I think of it as "roping in reverse".
Another simple way to visualize an advantageous way to use the "useful alt" idea is for a plane that holds E well to come into a fight at 10k, at 325mph. Just before entering icon range, he drops down to 7-8k, but now at 425mph. He's "hiding his E" now. To another plane, he appears "lower" than what his useful alt actually is... Another plane that is currently higher, but equal or (possibly even lower) in useful E may make an "E-expensive" initial attack, only to find out that he now has a severe E disadvantage... He's getting roped! But how? He started higher, right?!?
I'll try to find films to illustrate, but it may not be until later.
What if the low guy uses this "useful alt" disparity along with the angles possibilities mentioned earlier?
