Axis need a real Bomber, Preferably mid - late war.

[Staga]

These two please.
 

[AG Sachsenberg]

JU-188 or He-177 would be my bet on a mid- to late war buff.

------------------
 

Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!

[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 04-30-2001).]

[Kieran]

There are Japanese options that might do nicely, you know...  

[jato757]

fw 200 condor pleaz  
she's so purty

     

[This message has been edited by jato757 (edited 04-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jato757 (edited 04-30-2001).]

[Karnak]

jato757,
Condor'd be a death trap ya know.  The thing was quite fragile.

Good Axis Bomber Options:

H8K2
He177
Ki67
Ju188
P1Y1
Do217

Kieran,
You forget.  To a lot of these guys Allies = America, Britain & Russia; Axis = Germany and Japan = Japanese.  Might as well forget about Italy and Finland.

To us Allies = America, Britain & Russia and Axis = German, Japan, Italy and Finland.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[jato757]

ya whatever, the thin had a 20 mm on the tail and chin with other gunz elts where. i think its bomb load was 8,000lb i could be wrong. one more thing, planes are made to fly, not get shot so all are fragle  

[juzz]

What does "real bomber" mean? Something big, slow and über-gunned like the B-17G?

Or something fast, like the...

Uhh, just where ARE the fast bombers in AH???

[juzz]

The Fw 200 Condor had a 4,650lbs maximum bombload, and a blistering top speed of 224mph. At sea level it managed to do 190mph. Apparently even the lumbering Short Sunderland flying boat had a good chance of catching one.

Re: fragile, see this:
 

Hard landings tended to lead to a broken back. I believe that recently an intact Condor was retrieved from out of a lake - it broke in half while being recovered though.

The Fw 200 wasn't designed as a combat aircraft. It was a long-range airliner(world's best at the time) converted to the maritime patrol role out of neccessity.

It's civilian origins are the reason why it has such nice lines.  

[Dowding]

Give us some Russian or Japanese bombers!!

[illo]

He 177A-5 due to its speed and defensive rarmament.

Condor would be useless

[Vermillion]

If you want a good late war Axis Bomber, you have two choices. Both Japanese.

Ki67 "Peggy" - Very fast for a bomber(somewhere between 40-60 mph faster than a B26), good guns (mostly 20mm cannons), decent bomb load, and torpedo capable.

P1Y1 "Frances" - Even faster than the Ki67, light defensive guns (nose and dorsal, both 20mm), smaller bomb load, but highly manueverable, and also torpedo capable.

All the German bombers from midwar on, were slow, undergunned, and big fat targets. Sorry but the Germans never really made a good medium or heavy bomber, beyond the early war years.

If you looking for something similar from the Allies, I would say a Tu-2 or a Mosquito.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Staga]

Maybe its time to allies have something like Ju-88 is, a early war bomber.
Like Blenheim or SB-2  

[Staga]

A small comparison

              He-177 "Greif"       Ki-67 "Peggy"         P1Y1 "Frances"       H8K "Emily"
Bomb load      6000 kg+2*Hs293         800 kg               1000 kg              2000 kg
Speed          490 kmh             537 kmh                546 kmh              466 kmh
Armament     7,92+2*20+3*13mm     1*20mm+5*12,7mm        1*20mm+2*13mm      5*20mm+4* 7,7mm
Empty mass       16800 kg             8700 kg               7265 kg             18400 kg
Start mass       31000 kg           13800 kg              10500 kg        32000 kg
Range W/load      5000 km             2800 km               1915 km              6200 km

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-03-2001).]

[Karnak]

Staga,
How do you reason that the 1934 Blenheim is the equivilent of the 1940 Ju88.  Blenhiem and Do17 MIGHT be considered a match.

The closest the British have to the Ju88 would either be a Wellington (though I see that as more of an He111 equivilent) or a Mosquito B.MkIV.  The vesatility of both the Ju88 and Mosquito airframes makes me lean towards the Mosquito.

Just because the Axis never built any outstanding heavy bombers doesn't mean you need to get bent out of shape and grossly exagerate the relationships of what was built.

I think that the best you can hope for as far as Axis heavy bombers go would be an He177 Greif or an H8K2 "Emily", and the Emily doesn't have the bombload, only the guns and durability.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Staga,
How do you reason that the 1934 Blenheim is the equivilent of the 1940 Ju88.  Blenhiem and Do17 MIGHT be considered a match.

Ahem. The Bristol Blenheim started to get into service in the RAF in 1938. Just as the Ju88 entered service in the Luftwaffe. Get your facts straight,please   .

 

The closest the British have to the Ju88 would either be a Wellington (though I see that as more of an He111 equivilent) or a Mosquito B.MkIV.  The vesatility of both the Ju88 and Mosquito airframes makes me lean towards the Mosquito.

The wellington?...lol come on, the Wellington crews I'm sure were praying to god to have something as fast as the Ju88 for their night runs over Germany.

And BTW you lean towards the Mosquito?. Naturally...its a 1940 designed plane,rushed into service in 1941 (not like the Ju88,wich was designed in 1936, wich entered service in 1938)


 

Just because the Axis never built any outstanding heavy bombers doesn't mean you need to get bent out of shape and grossly exagerate the relationships of what was built.

I think the He177A-5 was a damned fine bomber, when the engines didnt catch fire   . And in any case the Messerchmitt Me-263 showed awesome promise. Tough luck that in 1944 the LW had to concentrate on fighter only, but the fact remains there that good german heavy bombers were there, just not in the numbers.

 

I think that the best you can hope for as far as Axis heavy bombers go would be an He177 Greif or an H8K2 "Emily", and the Emily doesn't have the bombload, only the guns and durability.

The only think wich can convert me in a pilot flying bombers in AH is a Greif   . Fast,with decent protection and with almost twice the load of a B-17. You think that's bad?

Heh, ok, I want that "bad" plane  


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-01-2001).]