Axis need a real Bomber, Preferably mid - late war.

[Jekyll]

Dowding stated:
 

Incidently, I didn't use the internet to gain a Masters Degree in Applied Physics.

So, was it by mail order, or out of a breakfast cereal packet?

 

[-tronski-]

And this whole argument can be avoided by just adding the Beaufighter instead  

Also,

 7 Sqn RAF was equipped by Short Stirlings by August 1940. Stirling had an operational load of 14,000lbs compared to the 4,500lbs of the wellington, 3,900lbs of the Ju88A.

Tronsky

[Dowding]

 

Originally posted by Jekyll:

 So, was it by mail order, or out of a breakfast cereal packet?

  (Image removed from quote.)[/B]

Hehehe - my PhD is mail order though.  

Actually, it is from the University of Durham. In a physics department with a research rating as high as Cambridge and Oxford, in a uni which is in the same league as Oxford or Cambridge.

And no, I am not a geek. Despite spending four long years there, my hair stayed short, my interest in Star Trek stayed slight, and my social skills never became inept.  

[Karnak]

Dowding,

 

And no, I am not a geek. Despite spending four long years there, my hair stayed short, my interest in Star Trek stayed slight, and my social skills never became inept.  (Image removed from quote.)

I call BS on this statement.

You're posting to a forum for an online WWII computer game.  You're a geek.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fishu]

Do 17Z, with Finnish markings  

[Dowding]

 

You're posting to a forum for an online WWII computer game. You're a geek.  

Ha!

I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.
I am not a geek.  

I'm just a little boy who always wanted to be a fighter pilot, but who never quite made it.  

Anyway, how can I be a geek? I don't even know who Patrick Stewart is!!

Err... oops.

 

[AG Sachsenberg]

Hmmm you have mentioned Star Trek twice and I assume you might know who PS is    Since I can't email ya Dowding, can you email me?    

------------------
 

Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!

[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-02-2001).]

[-lynx-]

 

But if you ask that same ex-RAF pilot if he would've liked a plane with 30-40mph more top speed-as the Ju88 had-, I would tend to think that they would've been more thankful to fly it than the Wellington

So yes. I am sure. Sure sure

Sorry RAM, I disagree with you there. Why did pilots love P47s? Manoeuverability? Comfort? Bollocks - it brought them home in most dire conditions. Same went for Wellingtons. Unique fuselage build was incredibly strong and they absorbed incredible amount of damage. (I have a pic of a Wellington which landed safely with no skin on the fuselage or tail aft of the wings - it flew home and landed)

40mph on a bomber makes very little difference where the enemy fighters are 100-200 mph faster. They will catch you whether you like it or not. It's what happens after they catch you that's important. And Wellington would outlive a dozen Ju88s...

[juzz]

Speed was probably quite important for night bombers!

1. Time spent crossing the ground-radar covered "night fighter zone" - you don't want to be lumbering slowly across this corridor, which stretched N-S across Western Europe.

2. Comparitive speed - the Me 110 and Ju 88 weren't anything like 100-200mph faster than their prey once you consider the effect of weight from added equipment, and extra drag from the antennae, drop tanks and exhaust shrouds, etc.

3. Endurance - the nightfighters like Ju 88 and Me 110 had barely adequate endurance for the role - if they had to chase a bomber down, they could easily run out of fuel and have to RTB.

40mph could quite possibly be the difference between life and death for night bombers.

PS: Wasn't that de-skinned Wimpy due to a direct flak hit, not nightfighters?

[J_A_B]

The JU-88 had pretty good performance for a bomber, but I'd never want to be in one in a daylight battle.

The major weakness of the JU-88 was the massing of the crew in the nose with insufficient armor to protect them.  It was a VERY vulnerable design to fighter attacks.  Indifferent defensive guns didn't help it any either.

How many of those He-177's were ever built???

J_A_B

[Staga]

Hmm this site claims its internal bombload was max 6000kg... (almost same as Lancs btw)

Quote from Warbirdsresourcegroup:
Production:
8 Prototypes
35 He 177A-0 (Mainly Arado built)
130 He 177A-1 (Arado built)
170 He 177A-3 (Heinkel Built)
826 He 177A-5



[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-03-2001).]

[Staga]

More info about He-177: http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/he-177.htm

(A5/R5 or A5/R8 would be worth of one (1) bottle of FPO.)

[R4M]

what juzz said     .And, Until better night fighters were available, many Do17 models were used as nightfighters. IIRC with a top speed of around 260mph.

So, a British night bomber with 280mph would've simply never had been intercepted by a german Do-17, so effectively denying the germans the effectivity of one of their most numerous (for that time) night fighters    

BTW if you think that a Ju88 could not withstand heavy damage you are quite wrong  


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-03-2001).]

[Jack55]

This site gives a 20,000 LB bomb load for a B-17G. Looks like AH has short changed the fortress.
 http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/history/boeing/b17.html

[R4M]

I dont doubt the B17 could lift 20000lbs of bombs, just as the lancaster could lift a tallboy. But I would really want to know the range of that plane, the lenght of the runway,the ammount of adaptation work needed(the B17 bomb bays had just the space needed to fit the 6x1000lbs, nothing left for more) and how many of the crewmen were left at ground with all their MGs and ammo  

AH features the most common load for the combat B17s in WWII, 6000 lbs of bombs.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 05-03-2001).]