F3 view

[moot]

Widewing, why not give the planes configured like the Il2 to have the rear gunner's pov as the pilot's 6 view?  The purpose of external views is to simulate multiple eye balls' coverage.  The Il2 doesn't have eyes in the belly.

[Widewing]

Widewing, why not give the planes configured like the Il2 to have the rear gunner's pov as the pilot's 6 view?  The purpose of external views is to simulate multiple eye balls' coverage.  The Il2 doesn't have eyes in the belly.

In the case of the IL-2, it doesn't have any views other than forward that are useful. It would have to include all rear quarter views as well. Lower rear views could be argued, but the gunner can lean over an look below to some extent... It's complicated, which is why they use the F3 compromise for simplicity.


My regards,

Widewing

[moot]

It wouldn't be complicated if you could scoot and save the view position around in the gunner's range of view, too.  Maybe work some coad magic for the view to "warp" to the gunner's box if the arrow keys were held down against the pilot's pov box's boundary for a second or two, because pilot and gunner boxes won't always match.  If they do though (non-orthogonal dimensions), it should be feasible to link the two boxes together with a small tunnel to avoid POV exploits (e.g. seeing from a position none of the crew possibly could have).

Once you'd saved the head positions that way, you'd have a view system no more complicated but more realistic than now.

[mechanic]

 I dont see how switching to gunner view is more realistic. The only realistic alternative is to remove F3 view and force the player to get a friend in the gunner's seat if they want the expanded field of view.

[moot]

It's not a switch to gunner view.  It's pressing 6-view in the pilot's seat and seeing what the gunner sees in that direction.  That's more realistic than an artificial god's eye view.  Removing the gunners' field of view is unrealistic.  Gunner positions were manned.  They reported what they saw.  This is why F3 view's there in the first place.

[waystin2]

I really like Moot's line of thinking on this.  Sound and certainly more reasonable than the current F3 view system for some planes.

[moot]

Well, it's true that it's not quite realistic to have all rearward views, as seen from the gunner, allowed from the pilot seat.  Maybe make it only dead 6 view that can scoot back to the gunner's pov.  It's just an idea either way.

[mechanic]

Moot, my point being neither F3 view or the ability to see from the gunners view as the check-6 view are anymore realistic than each other.

Convinience? Sure thing. But not realistic either way. The Il-2 specificaly has an excelent gunsite for deflection shots from internal view anyhow. I like your idea and it would work well. Still, any change from the current system would just mean work for HTC providing essentialy the same end result.

[moot]

Not the same end result.  You'd have planes restricted to what they actually saw.  That's more realistic than an invisible floating camera with zero restrictions.

[mechanic]

I think true realism would be having a human tail gunner. Maybe an AI gunner that shouts 'oh god we're going to die' when an enemy dives on you.

However, i will surrender on this topic now, it's all the same to me really.

[shreck]

I think true realism would be having a human tail gunner. Maybe an AI gunner that shouts 'oh god we're going to die' when an enemy dives on you.

Sadly this was probably more the reality then some poor sob tossed into the back seat calmly calling out threats in an informative nature so the pilot would know exactly what to do!


I like m00ts idea! and my own----> ( allow F3 for bombers with 2 or more defensive firing guns ONLY) 

Or at the minimum, attach F3 view to the life of the tail gunner. If the gunner dies so does F3 for that sortie!

[moot]

If the gunner dies so does F3 for that sortie!

That's a good one.

[Rich46yo]

When this happened today I thought about this thread. This! is the A-typical kind of bonehead that gets clipped by an IL-2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ityo8LKxBw Frankly I wanted nothing to do with this Corsair. I had just killed two tanks and for sure didn't want to get into a turn fight with a Corsair, certainly not in the hands of somebody who knows what they are doing.

I needn't of worried. I wanted to avoid the HO but when I saw him dip towards me I headed his way and then ducked him creating separation on my terms, and with energy. There was another fighter in the area, a friendly, so I wasn't to worried about him climbing. Of course all he does is turn around and head right into me for another HO. Now the F3 views didn't give me any kind of edge the normal views of a fighter has, most of all the fighters with the really great canopys and views like the Pony-D or Yak...ect I still had to climb into the Pilots seat to shoot.

I was only going 200 mph. The Corsair was flat out. Now even if he climbed until he was 2,000' above me we still would have been in similar energy states. Even better would have been "He" coming into an enemy base at 8,000' instead of 1,000'.

This is the kind of unimaginative flying I see in IL-2s. Even with F3 views any fighter stick with even moderate skills should have no problem putting them down. But the whiners and the snivelers pull these kind of pooch stunts on bombers like that and then cry "foul" for any various reason. Sometimes its the 1 + 2 drones, sometimes its the auto-fire, sometimes its the F3 views, sometimes its the "hordes at 15,000'" I'm still laughing over that one.

Ive noticed that about the IL-2s. They draw HO'ing fighters like light does to moths. I see it all the time.

[mechanic]

If the gunner dies so does F3 for that sortie!

genius 

[shreck]

When this happened today I thought about this thread. This! is the A-typical kind of bonehead that gets clipped by an IL-2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ityo8LKxBw Frankly I wanted nothing to do with this Corsair. I had just killed two tanks and for sure didn't want to get into a turn fight with a Corsair, certainly not in the hands of somebody who knows what they are doing.

I needn't of worried. I wanted to avoid the HO but when I saw him dip towards me I headed his way and then ducked him creating separation on my terms, and with energy. There was another fighter in the area, a friendly, so I wasn't to worried about him climbing. Of course all he does is turn around and head right into me for another HO. Now the F3 views didn't give me any kind of edge the normal views of a fighter has, most of all the fighters with the really great canopys and views like the Pony-D or Yak...ect I still had to climb into the Pilots seat to shoot.

I was only going 200 mph. The Corsair was flat out. Now even if he climbed until he was 2,000' above me we still would have been in similar energy states. Even better would have been "He" coming into an enemy base at 8,000' instead of 1,000'.

This is the kind of unimaginative flying I see in IL-2s. Even with F3 views any fighter stick with even moderate skills should have no problem putting them down. But the whiners and the snivelers pull these kind of pooch stunts on bombers like that and then cry "foul" for any various reason. Sometimes its the 1 + 2 drones, sometimes its the auto-fire, sometimes its the F3 views, sometimes its the "hordes at 15,000'" I'm still laughing over that one.

Ive noticed that about the IL-2s. They draw HO'ing fighters like light does to moths. I see it all the time.

Wow, was that you turning in F3 mode?    Please say again F3 doesn't make a difference You used F3 the entire time except for the shot! I think you confirmed my theory once again  TY!

Also once again, no-one said anything about "HORDES of IL2s at 15K"