Rating system for AH fighters

[F4UDOA]

Gents,

I was trying to come up with a way to rate a fighter plane as I have heard them rated by WW2 pilots. In other words as Tommy Blackburn would say, "That is a One Hundred Percent ship" base on X number of criteria.

So here is my rating system.

10 different categories rated 1 to 5. 5 is the best and would be for instance, range the Mustang gets a 5. This will total as the best A/C gets closest to 50. 50 being perfect. Kapish? Let's go.

F4U-1D

1. Speed = 4 Not the Fastest, but close to the top. Excellent at sea level or below 25K.

2. Climb = 3 Good not great climber. This rating is based on 3,400FPM initial and 7.1 to 20K.

3. Dive = 4 Very good, not the best though.

4. Durability = 5 You could argue the P-47 was better, but it is too close to call. It as good as it gets.

5. Range = 3 With drop tanks it is as good as the P-47 except the N. better than 109, 190, Spit, 202, 205, yak and La5 clearly.

6. Armament = 3 4 hispanos would be the best. Heavy cannons second.

7. Ordinance load = 5 Nobody carries as much 20mill or 50 cal to the battle. Not to mention bombs and rockets.

8. High speed handling = 5 If anybody does it better I am not aware.

9. Low speed handling = 3 Good. Better than P-51 or FW190. Hellcat/Spit would be a 4. Zeke a 5.

10. Multi-purpose = 5 Fighter, Bomber, Escort recon, night fighter and carrier takeoff.

Total= 40

Anybody care to try their favorite?

Argue the points?

[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Jochen]

I have done same thing for all planes in AH, scale was from 0 to 10 and there was many more parameters rated, low/med/high alt speed, climb, cocpit visibility, protection, bomb carryin capacity, range, turning ability, roll...

Score  was calculated to all planes in different categories ie. air superiority, interceptor, ground attack, fighter bomber.

Results were quite interesting. Whereas Bf 109G-10 sucks as air superiority fighter it was clearly the best interceptor and same reversod for P-51 Mudstain.

Maybe I could post the results to my web page somday.

------------------
jochen Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[Soda]

I had put something similar together when I first started AH.  Before taking off in an aircraft I would look at the numbers and decide how to fly it.

The data came from all kinds of sources, not only AH numbers, but also some brand X numbers, plus anything else I could scratch together in actual testing offline.

The main problem for me was that the categories could too easily get divided as planes tended to get much different ratings at different alts/weights/speeds.  Giving any specific rating for speed, for example, would only be good between alt X and Y, but above Y it could receive a much different rating.

-Soda

[F4UDOA]

I just did a quick down and dirty for my criteria catagories.

But I think the 1 to 5 rating scale is the best. Because it make the ratings very tangable. For instance I think in range comparison the Mustang has to be a 5. Evrything else is easy then because you know how to judge. The A6M5 has the same range as a P-51. Next has to be the P-38/P-47. Then the Navy Birds F4U/F6F, then the FW190, 109 and Spitty followed probably by the C202 or Yak with the least internal fuel.

Lets try the 109G10. (Just my opinion folks)

1. Speed = 5 clearly one of the fastest

2. Climb = 5 One of the best as well

3. Dive = 3 Fast but no control at high speed

4. Durability = 2 Not very durable + liquid cooled engine

5. Range = 2 very range limited, probably cost Germans the Battle of Britian.

6. Armament = 3 Good hitting power . 4 hispano's best. FW190A8 is next at a 4.

7. Ordinance load = 3 enough, barely.

8. High speed handling = 2 Clearly not it's best feature.

9. Low speed handling = 3 Good, better than FW190. Not as good as spit.

10. Multi-purpose = 2 Not very adaptable to other roles. (if I'm wrong tell me)

Total = 30

Is this right, wrong??

 

[Vermillion]

Pretty good analysis F4UDOA. I would agree with you in most categories, and maybe one point in a few but overall I agree.

One significant cateogry you missed is acceleration. True climb rate and acceleration are directly related (ie linear), but It probably be a seperate category.  Another I would probably add is E retention.

Here's Mine:

Yak-9U

1. Speed = 4 Not the Fastest, but close to the top. Excellent at sea level or below 25K. (very similar to the F4U, almost equivalent at most altitudes)

2. Climb = 4 (Maybe a 3, its borderline)

3. Dive = 4 Only the big heavy fighters like the F4U or P47 pull away, but dive handling remains good.

4. Durability = 3 Very average, middle of the pack, but no noticeable weaknesses (ie no glass rudder or other afflictions specific to some aircraft)

5. Range = 2  Sufficent range for most Air to Air missions, but definitely lacks any escort or deep strike capability.

6. Armament = 2 Barely a two, and only because it has a single cannon. Combined with its small clip, it requires a good tracking shot to be effective. Only the light MG only aircraft are worse.

7. Ordinance load = 1 Can it get any worse? No Ord and No drop tanks.

8. High speed handling = 4  Very good close to the best.

9. Low speed handling = 3

10. Multi-purpose = 2

Total= 29

However if you add the following two categories

11. Acceleration = 5 Tied for best with 109G10. Yak is better way down low, G10 is better up high.

12. E-Retention = 5 If not the best, its at least tied for the best. I've seen nothing that can out E fight a Yak.


And for me, its the last two categories that make the Yak shine!  


------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Ripsnort]

Cool, I like it, let me try one (IMO that is)

N1K
1. Speed = 5  one of the fastest under 20k, N1K can out accelerate anything but the Spit, and at 350 mph on the deck, certainly can catch anything but the Tiffie ,Yak9 and P51D on the deck.

2. Climb = 4 One of the top 5 climbers, at roughly 3200 FPM up to 20k.

3. Dive = 4 Fast and good control at high speed.

4. Durability = 3 -about avg. for durability.

5. Range = 3 good range , not as bad as a 109, but not as good as the P47D.

6. Armament = 5-Good to Excellent hitting power. Guns better than German 20mm but not as good as Hispanos (and 4 of them, with excellent ammo loadout).

7. Ordinance load = 3 -enough to get the job done, the 2x250k bombs are equivelent to 2x500 lbers., with numbers, can  take down a field with no problem.

8. High speed handling = 4 ,one of the best high speed handlers in the game, short of an excellent roll rate like the FW190.

9. Low speed handling = 4 one of the best again, overall in low and high speed handling. Can out turn all but about 2 A/C in the current planeset.

10. Multi-purpose = 4 -Excellent ATA and ATG aircraft.
                    Total = 39


[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

Looks good except the armament. I'd give it a 3 even without the gun pods and a 5 with them. Especially with the 30mm. On top of that any plane with the most of it's guns along the centerline of the plane has a real advantage. Also just having a cannon on here should rank the plane as above average IMO. Going with your system I'll try the P-38.

Speed 5
Climb 5
Dive 5 (if you know how to use it) 2 (if you don't)
Durability 4 (only because I'm taking into account it's a big target)
Range 5
Armament 4
Ordinance load 5
High speed handling 5
Low speed handling 4
Average 4.6

[MANDOBLE]

F4UDOA you should separate armament into two separate factors:
Lethality and effective range.
For example, 190A8 could have an above average lethality, but a pathetic effective range. IMO both factors are equally important, and, for example, Hispano armed planes will be on top in both.

[Ripsnort]

Manoble, I think you can avg. that out, say, a 3 for effective range, a 5 for lethality within its effective range, so the average would be 4 for that A/C...something like that...

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Lets try the 109G10. (Just my opinion folks)

1. Speed = 5 clearly one of the fastest

2. Climb = 5 One of the best as well

3. Dive = 3 Fast but no control at high speed

4. Durability = 2 Not very durable + liquid cooled engine

5. Range = 2 very range limited, probably cost Germans the Battle of Britian.

6. Armament = 3 Good hitting power . 4 hispano's best. FW190A8 is next at a 4.

7. Ordinance load = 3 enough, barely.

8. High speed handling = 2 Clearly not it's best feature.

9. Low speed handling = 3 Good, better than FW190. Not as good as spit.

10. Multi-purpose = 2 Not very adaptable to other roles. (if I'm wrong tell me)

Total = 30

Is this right, wrong??

 

Wrong, its clear you dont fly G10 a lot   . And you rate some "ones" as "twos" dont know why.


1. Speed = 5 ----Agree

2. Climb = 5 ----Agree

3. Dive = 1----Dive serves for nothing if you cant roll and pull out on a different direction. G10's hispeed handling is abysmal. So, a 1.

4. Durability = 1. Not durable, radiator and oil lines uberexposed,difficult to roll with one aileron and unable to maintain controlled flying with half wing gone. Not to mention that rudders and elevators are indispensable on this plane, so if they are hit, also it suffers a lot. This plane not only breaks up easily, but also takes very bad the damage. Its a 1 for me.

5. Range = 2 You rate this as a 2. Why? 109G10 is the plane with WORSE range in Aces High, if you rate this as a 2 ,then what will be 1? (edited to take in account the DT option)

6. Armament = 2 You rate it as a 3. With the Mauser cannon, has reasonable ammo load and decent accuracy, but very few hitting power. With 30mm it has impressive hitting power but almost no accuracy. IMO the 109s have the worse weapon configuration in AH after the C202.

7. Ordinance load = 2. Can't carry 500kg bombs, only 250Kg.

8. High speed handling = 1 again, you rate it as a two, when is the worse maneouverating plane over 400 IAS. Man, wich one will be the worse if this isnt'?

9. Low speed handling = 3 Not as good as a 190,and inferior to many planes, but still has some tricks to do.

10. Multi-purpose = 1 On Jabo role it is worthless. One 250kg bomb that barely can be launched on dive bombing (because the controls lock up on the dive). Two AA rockets,barely usable on A/G work that after launched, their launch pods remain attached to the wings.

Total: 23




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[RAM]

Fw190A5:

1. Speed = 2. One of the slower planes in this planeset.

2. Climb = 3 Decent under 7K. lower than average over it.

3. Dive = 4. Some planes outdive a 190, but this plane's highspeed handling and roll help a lot.

4. Durability = 3 Engine very prone to damage. Airframe resistant, and very able to fight with one aileron, or rudder, gone. Also, it can RTB with half wing gone.

5. Range = 3 lower than the average, but not so bad for a 2.

6. Armament = 3 Decent hitting power, but lacks long range accuracy. The MGFFs are worthless,as are the 7.9mm.

7. Ordinance load = 2. Only one 500kg bomb. No AG rockets.

8. High speed handling = 3. Over 400 IAS this plane is at a slight disadvantage compared with the allied Iron. Its not bad, but not outstanding.

9. Low speed handling = 3. Can roll very fast at low speeds, and when light it can pull a lot of awesome tricks.But the bad turning ability of this plane lowers the puntuation.

10. Multi-purpose = 3. With the good ammo load for the inner cannons, can straffe, and the 500Kg is a good bomb. Not a record breaker but enough to do the work.

Total: 29



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[RAM]

Fw190A8:
1. Speed = 3. fast plane low on the deck, but no roadrunner. other than that, a bit lower than the average.

2. Climb = 2. A nightmare.

3. Dive = 4. Some planes outdive a 190, but this plane's highspeed handling and roll help a lot.

4. Durability = 3 Engine very prone to damage. Airframe resistant, and very able to fight with one aileron, or rudder, gone. Also, it can RTB with half wing gone.

5. Range = 3 On the average.

6. Armament = 4 Good hitting power, but lacks long range accuracy. If decimals were allowed I'd put a 3.5 here ( for me the standard 4 would be the P47's eight 50 cals)

7. Ordinance load = 2. Only one 500kg bomb. No AG rockets.

8. High speed handling = 3. Over 400 IAS this plane is at a slight disadvantage compared with the allied Iron. Its not bad, but not outstanding.

9. Low speed handling = 2. Can roll very fast at low speeds, but that's about it. Its heavy and can't defend itself well when slow.

10. Multi-purpose = 3. With the good ammo load for the inner cannons, can straffe, and the 500Kg is a good bomb. Not a record breaker but enough to do the work.

Total: 29




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Manoble, I think you can avg. that out, say, a 3 for effective range, a 5 for lethality within its effective range, so the average would be 4 for that A/C...something like that...

5 for lethality? LOL!

4 and thanks. Mausers dont pack, by far, the same punch as hispano does  

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Manoble, I think you can avg. that out, say, a 3 for effective range, a 5 for lethality within its effective range, so the average would be 4 for that A/C...something like that...

Ok, lets try:
Number of guns * Effective Range * Lethality

190A8 2x20 + 2x13 + 2x30
2 * 2 * 4 = 16
2 * 3 * 2 = 12
2 * 1 * 5 = 10
Armament: 38

190A8 4x20 + 2x13
4 * 2 * 4 = 32
2 * 3 * 2 = 12
Armament: 42

F4U1C 4x20
4 * 5 * 5 = 100
Armament: 100

P51D 6x50
6 * 5 * 3 = 90
Armament: 90

109G10 1x20 2x13
1 * 2 * 4 = 8
2 * 3 * 2 = 12
Armament: 20

Nikki 4x20
4 * 4 * 5 = 80
Armament: 80

Well, it seems my formula is an absolute disaster  

We should take into account ammo load, ROF, etc, etc.

[F4UDOA]

Heya's,

Great stuff. Just wanted a fun thread. Nothing to serious.

Vermillion, your right about the acceleration and E-retention. Adding  a couple of categories probably will give the best overall rating of every bird. For instance I left out view. The Bubble birds will do well there.

RAM,

I am basing this on Real life only. I don't want AH numbers. AH is supposed to be simulating RL. Not the other way around. I'm surprised on your evaluation of the FW190A5. I would rate it much higher. Especially if you add E and acceleration to the mix. And I would definitely give it's guns a solid 4.

JimDandy,

It depends on which data your looking at for the P-38L. Some of Citabria's numbers make it 20mph faster than I have seen it listed. So I guess it depends.

Here is my FW190A5

Speed = 3 Not bad, but definitely not a speed demon.

Climb = 4 Not elite but fast to 20K. Under 7 minutes

Dive = 4 Not the fastest, but maneuvers and holds e well.

Durability = 4 Radial engine, better than CP-51, 109, spit. A5/U8 was used for ground attack for this reason.

Range = 3 good range for German fighter.

Armament = 4 heavy cannon + MG, second behind only hispano.

Ordinance load = 3 good ammo supply, used for Jabo missions heavily.

High speed handling = 4 Slightly inferior to American iron at 400MPH. Otherwise excellent.

Low Speed Handling = 2 despite being able to roll at extreme speed at 200mph it's performance at or near high stall speed was nasty.

Multi purpose = 4 Were there any radar equipped 190's? How about photo recon?

Total= 35

 


[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 01-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 01-15-2001).]