Pearl Harbor FSO

[AKKuya]

I was curious if the FSO Team had any plans for one?  It would involve the design team to create a special map for this.  It would have to be 80% IJN and 20% American

Frame 1 would be the first wave hitting Battleship Row and the airfields.  A map would have to be created allowing the battleships to be placed like in historical pictures.  The IJN would carry out the attack and the Allies would man all the available gun positions on the ships and in the airfields.

Frame 2 would be identical to Frame 1 with the second wave.

Frame 3 would  be the hypothetical third wave being confronted by the small air defense from the USN carriers.

This setup would totally favor the IJN. 

[Hamltnblue]

The reason they haven't done it is to be a recreation of the real thing, the allies would have to sit on the ground until attacked and would probably be slaughtered in 5 mins.

I also don't think there is a map available that includes pearl harbor.

[Squire]

If it was done it would be a "what-if" version, with the Allies putting up a much larger air effort. It has been discussed by CMs, but we need a finished map.

[Saxman]

The reason they haven't done it is to be a recreation of the real thing, the allies would have to sit on the ground until attacked and would probably be slaughtered in 5 mins.

I also don't think there is a map available that includes pearl harbor.

Being able to man the 5" batteries on the ships would make a pretty big difference. Those things are lasers, and the proximity fuses are ridiculously accurate.

[AKKuya]

If it was done it would be a "what-if" version, with the Allies putting up a much larger air effort. It has been discussed by CMs, but we need a finished map.

That's why I suggested the 80/20 split with the the first 2 frames being Allies strictly in manned gun positions.  The IJN still have to strafe targets on the ground giving the Allies the chance for some shoot downs.  The third frame would be the Allies putting up a small defense against the third wave.  It is a lopsided scenario but that's what happened in the first place.

After all, it's just a thought.

[Squire]

"with the the first 2 frames being Allies strictly in manned gun positions"

Im not sure you would find much enthusiasm for that.

Some "historic" setups just dont lend themselves to a FSO design without some modification.

[AKKuya]

Like I posted before, it was a thought.  Maybe there should be a voting poll among the FSO squads for it.  Plus a strictly volunteer agreement for the squads wanting to be Allies knowing that the first two frames might be a little boring.  On the third frame they would be drooling at the prospects of some payback.

[Viper61]

My 2 cents:

I'm all for new scenarios as it brings in new setups and outcomes.

However the most important thing is that "both" sides have to have a fair and equal chance to win.  That means equal targets to defend and attack.  Plane setups and side splits to make it as fair and balanced as is possible.  Not to long ago there use to be FSO events in which "historical accuracy" become more important than "fair and equal game play" for both sides.  Turnout for the "losing" side was always lower which turned an already lopsided event even worse with the whole event ending in the first 60 minutes because the "losing" side was already wiped out.  Lets not go down that road again ever!

We all know who won the war and the pivotal battles.  Theres no need to "recreate them to the enth degree".  I'm a pilot and a player in these events and not a "reenactor".  Its all about fun to me and the 325th VFG.

For scenario's in which one side won by a lopsided amount like "Pearl Harbor".  I recommend a "What if" scenario be added to it in which both sides have a fair and equal chance to win.

   What if the radar warning had been listened to.  And the P-40's had gotten off of the ground in time to defend the harbor.
   What if the 3 US Carriers were near enough to Pearl to defend it.  Allow them to attack the IJN Naval units.
   Add in a GV battle as the IJN forces land and the US forces defend.  Everyone likes a good GV battle in the FSO.

  Just my 2 cents.
   

[fudgums]

There's a scenario right up of PH

[AKKuya]

What if scenario for Pearl harbor works for me.

[ghostdancer]

I remember flying in the Pearl Harbor Scenario back in Air Warrior which was very similar to what you describe. Of course there was no manning guns then but frame 1 and the surprise was handled by giving the Allied side a set number of picket planes. The rest of the allied pilots were allowed to spawn but not to take off until the enemy was spotted.

It was very tense waiting on the runway, waiting to hear that our pickets had discovered the incoming attack force. Fortunately for us a lone Japanese pilot went rogue (I believe he was a walkon) and got spotted by one of our pickets which allowed the whole Allied air force to take off. The battle was really something else.

As Viper said game play, fun, and having a setup where both sides have a roughly equal chance of success are very important to FSO. If a designer goes to far toward historical accuracy issues can arise since some setups are just not suited for meeting both objectives .. historical accuracy but with both sides have an equal chance of success.

Frame 1 of a PH FSO would be the tough one to design. All the allies being on the ground manning guns or only being able to take off after the Japanese attack would be very rough for the allies and possibly not a lot would find that fun. Actually since many people enjoy action there might be some Japanese players that wouldn't care for it either.

You could turn on radar but since AH allows you to see the radar coverage an IJN force could plot a path around it. You could use pickets but then there is a chance of the allies still not taking off before the Japanese attacks. Although maybe people would like that tension. Or maybe you can build in a launch time for the allies. Say IJN on Frame 1 launches at T+0 but allies don't get to launch until T+30 except for maybe say a small force of planes conducting maneuvers.

So I guess yes, you can build a what if to sort of give the tension of the historical event but still make it playable. Just would need a lot of careful design for frame 1. For frame 2, well the allies have already been attacked. I would allow the allies to launch at T+0 and frame 2 with the USN CVs looking for revenge would also T+0.

[PFactorDave]

It seems to me that it might be tough to design a Pearl Harbor scenario that is both fun for both sides and spreads the FSO squads out enough to prevent over crowding issues.  Having 500+ players all in a small area would present its own problems.

[Dux]

Very astute, Dave. Not only 500+ players all in one tiny area, but that tiny area will be a highly-customized area with custom textures and custom objects.

We had a nice PH terrain 98% built a few years ago, and a terrain update killed it. With another update coming soon... one with extra terrain features... it will be worth trying to resurrect it again.

[Saxman]

I remember flying in the Pearl Harbor Scenario back in Air Warrior which was very similar to what you describe. Of course there was no manning guns then but frame 1 and the surprise was handled by giving the Allied side a set number of picket planes. The rest of the allied pilots were allowed to spawn but not to take off until the enemy was spotted.

It was very tense waiting on the runway, waiting to hear that our pickets had discovered the incoming attack force. Fortunately for us a lone Japanese pilot went rogue (I believe he was a walkon) and got spotted by one of our pickets which allowed the whole Allied air force to take off. The battle was really something else.

VMF-251 participated in the PH scenario this last December, and they had Allied launch triggered by base flash. Same thing happened as you described: One rogue pilot flashed a base early, giving the entire US force a chance to get in the air. The Japanese got SLAUGHTERED.

[ghostdancer]

Yep the same happened in that AW scenario. The allied planes got airborne and got alt so that they were co-alt with the Japanese forces when they came into the island. If I remember right the allies took frame 1 and really beat up the Japanese.

The interesting thing about the AW scenario is that is was 4 frames. Basically the first frame was the initial strike and the second frame was the follow up strike. Then both sides switch sides (U.S. players were then Japanese) and they repeated frame 1 and 2 (now frame 3 and 4).