P-47M whine whine whine

[BnZs]

The problem with the P-47M is that it was extremely rare (56th FG only as I recall) so adding it to AH isn't about filling in the big gaps in the planeset, it is about giving P-47 fans the absolute best air-to-air P-47 there was, regardless of its significance or lack thereof.

We have Ta-152s, 163s, C-Hogs, and 3 gun La7s. Rarity is apparently not a consideration.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The problem with the P-47M is that it was extremely rare (56th FG only as I recall) so adding it to AH isn't about filling in the big gaps in the planeset, it is about giving P-47 fans the absolute best air-to-air P-47 there was, regardless of its significance or lack thereof.

Yes, that's true. But how many other planes have their best model added, despite there already being plenty of models? I understand your position, but given the fact that several other planes have their best model in the game, the P-47 shouldn't be any different.

[Wingnutt]

It'd certainly climb better... 800fpm better. But 460@28 and 400@10 looks not much different from the N.

those numbers are without WEP.

[Karnak]

Yes, that's true. But how many other planes have their best model added, despite there already being plenty of models? I understand your position, but given the fact that several other planes have their best model in the game, the P-47 shouldn't be any different.

Which ones?  None of the British ones are their best.  I understand that neither the 109K-4 or 190D-9 are their best versions.  The N1K2-J may be best, but the Ki-84 is not.  The P-51D is not the best version, perhaps the F4U-4 is?

[MjTalon]

I'm all for the P-47M being added in AH. How long till then who knows but once it comes it will surely make a impact. However, the P-47N is far from a target boat in the MA. Yes, with WEP it's a monster and without it it's a loaded piglet BUT it's still a P-47 none the less.

8x50 cals of love and fuel to fly for well over a hour plus the speed advantage to tangle with most planes in the MA. Now just as with any P-47, they are far from easy to fly and far from easy to learn to dogfight with surely but it can be done. I've flown the P-47 quite a while back and while i was with the 56th for my brief period I learned to love the November. It's the only P-47 that can abuse it's horsepower in the zoom climb as well as getting low and slow with her.

Once you learn the P-47 models you'll gradually progress into the N and once you've flown both the D models and N you will favor the N over the entire set because of it's usefulness with WEP. All it takes is proper WEP management, SA and gunnery to become proficient in the Nato but most load it out like a bomb truck and expect it to out run and out turn crap that it wouldn't. If i can recall correctly, doesn't ALL P-47 models have the 5 minute WEP limit? 

[BnZs]

Which ones?  None of the British ones are their best.  I understand that neither the 109K-4 or 190D-9 are their best versions.  The N1K2-J may be best, but the Ki-84 is not.  The P-51D is not the best version, perhaps the F4U-4 is?

I believe all these planes are performing as best they can without higher octane fuels, which HTC has not chosen to add. All of these planes are great LW planes, except for the P-51D, which is merely good, and very competitive.

Karnak and company, if your sense of fairness and balance doesn't tell you why adding a better LW version of a presently somewhat marginal fighter to the LW arena is more important than adding an even more uber uberplane, then I'm not sure I can get it across to you.

[Karnak]

Karnak and company, if your sense of fairness and balance doesn't tell you why adding a better LW version of a presently somewhat marginal fighter to the LW arena is more important than adding an even more uber uberplane, then I'm not sure I can get it across to you.

What sort of idiot are you?  None of us are advocating "uber" planes be added.  I have no idea how you got the exact opposite message from what we are saying.  We are saying that adding a historically insignificant fighter just because it is "uber" is not a good idea in our opinions.  If HTC adds the P-47M, they add it, but I think the time would be better spent on other, more significant, aircraft like, say, the Ki-43 or Yak-1 or Yak-7 or Beaufighter or C.200 or G4M2 or He111 or Wellington or Pe-2 or ect, ect...

[bj229r]

If they added the "M", even as a perk, I'd drop the "N" as my every-mission-plane....."N" is just enough superior to the D40 to be competitive at lower alts with inferior numbers (faster than spit16/niki, between 7-15k is slightly faster than Lghey). Buuut, doesn't look like it will happen, so the N's have it, mind-numbing climb rate and all

[moot]

those numbers are without WEP.

Well.... Why didn't you say so?    That and 3000 pounds lighter (and the correct speed numbers) are the figures you should've mentionned   I'm not against the M at all, it's one of the top 10 I'd like to see asap myself.  But the N isn't such a bad plane as you describe.
Thanks Widewing.

[Wingnutt]

I put the N in a lower than it deserves, to offset the folks that say things like "its as competitive as the spit16, or LA7 in the MA"

+1, -1..... 0 order returns.
 

[BnZs]

What sort of idiot are you?  None of us are advocating "uber" planes be added.  I have no idea how you got the exact opposite message from what we are saying.  We are saying that adding a historically insignificant fighter just because it is "uber" is not a good idea in our opinions.  If HTC adds the P-47M, they add it, but I think the time would be better spent on other, more significant, aircraft like, say, the Ki-43 or Yak-1 or Yak-7 or Beaufighter or C.200 or G4M2 or He111 or Wellington or Pe-2 or ect, ect...

Sorry Karnak...from your response I guess I came off more confrontational than I meant.

What I mean is, I hear people say as regards the 47M "Well, we don't have a Spit21 or a P-51D running on 150 octane or 400mph OTD D9 either...", well, that is true. But the Spits, Ponies, and Doras we do have are competitive in performance at typical low alts in a way the 47s aren't. If the fights were from the deck to 30K, the 47s would have their own bailiwick where they would be highly competitive...but they are not, they are from the deck to 15K at most 80% of the time. The M still won't be an La7, but its addition would make a grand old "plane of fame" a tick more competitive in the weeds, and I think this is worthwhile, especially considering the presumably lower labor involved in modeling it because of its similarity to the D.

As for adding other planes, well, I like new toys as well as the next guy, so I can't say anything against any alternate suggestions.

[Stoney]

We are saying that adding a historically insignificant fighter just because it is "uber" is not a good idea in our opinions.  If HTC adds the P-47M, they add it, but I think the time would be better spent on other, more significant, aircraft like, say, the Ki-43 or Yak-1 or Yak-7 or Beaufighter or C.200 or G4M2 or He111 or Wellington or Pe-2 or ect, ect...

This is the key, and has been repeated in just about every other P-47M thread since I've been around, including one I started way back when I was a new player, and impatiently asking for the M-Jug.  I certainly expect it to be added at some point in the future.  In the meantime, all the Jugs are still competitive in the LW MA, warts and all.  The M will certainly be a better MA aircraft than the N--no one is arguing it won't.  But, decrying the drawbacks of the existing in-game Jug as justification for adding the M is, in my opinion, a poor argument.  If you're flying a Jug air-to-air in the MA, you're not doing it because its the most capable aircraft, you're doing it because you like to fly the Jug.  So, I contend everyone who chooses to fly the Jug in the LW MA should lose the chip on their shoulder and enjoy being a P-47 fanboi in spite of its drawbacks, and take pride in blowing the hell out of La-7s, Spit 16s, etc. merely because it demonstrates the superiority of heavy, loud, inefficient, American iron over those dainty little magic carpets that any 3rd grader can fly...   

[BaldEagl]

I flew the P-47N for only the second time in February of this year.  These were my non-scientific impressions:

I had an 8 kill sortie in the N last night.  It's fast, handles smoothly, is lethal, manouvers well enough (I outmanouvered a Yak on the deck) and, unfortunately, climbs like a Jug.  I think I like it better than the D11 or D25.  It's just so smooth to fly.  I think I even prefer it to the 51D.

Preferring the N Jug to the D Pony with an ENY of 8 it seems as though 5 ENY is right although possibly both of them could be raised.

I'm not sure why we would need the M but hey, I'm all for more aircraft to fly.

[bozon]

Once you learn the P-47 models you'll gradually progress into the N ...

You'd regress right back to the D11...

We are saying that adding a historically insignificant fighter just because it is "uber" is not a good idea in our opinions.  If HTC adds the P-47M, they add it, but I think the time would be better spent on other, more significant, aircraft like...

...Like the D23 which would be the best non-M jug dogfighter. Any other razorback with WEP and paddle blade prop would do just fine. Not only this is a significant kind of jug, it is the most significant kind of jug. However, fixing the mosquito must take priority

[projoe]

If the M model is added all the other jugs would become hangar queens.