Author Topic: I love my 190 a5! (Read 4467 times)

Kirin · « **Reply #30 on:** June 22, 2000, 01:23:00 AM »

Come on Dingy,

I see enough Zekes and Yaks out there. Finally the LW got a capable, nimble dogfighter and everyone wants to take it away. Of course many people, especially JG2 (and that's a good part of the Knights) fly A5. Remember when the 109 variants were out? The sky was filled with em... then after some time the 109 was a quite rare sight (except JG2 again...

)

It's true the A5 surprised me as well but I didn't know too much about historical data. At least it lives up to the legend that the FW190, successor of the Bf109, was a better plane than its preccessors!!

(baaaaaad english)

The A5, if flown right, is deadly. It's something like a jack-of-all-trades - it's not the best at anything but good in all categories. I agree on that what RAM said, people are used to see 190A8 - now A5 is something different. All you CannonHog, Sissyfire and Runstang drivers a new kid is on the block (

).

The A5 still has nothing magic. E bleed is considerable when turning. Stall characteristics are squeakier than in A8 (or maybe in 1.02). Acceleration and climb are very good. Topspeed is decent but most will catch ya. Manouverability is good as long you don't turn horizontally. It's much harder now to rip wings off, did this all the time in A8, not yet happened to me in A5.

All in all the A5 is my new love! (Hey times change, sry 109)

------------------
~Kirin~

JG2 "Richthofen"

"Ich bin immer nur die Messerschmitt 109 geflogen, aller Varianten angefangen von der G-6 bis hin zur K-14. Die Gustav war weitaus kraftvoller als die Friedrich, und hinzu kam die weitaus schwerere Bewaffnung. Die G-10 zum Beispiel hatte eine 30 mm Kanone mit absolut zerstörerirscher Wirkung. Sie war auch die schnellste aller G-Serien, mit einer exzellenten Steigrate, und war in sämtlichen Flugbereichen ausgezeichnet zu fliegen. Ich fühlte mich in meiner 'Beule' immer zuhause und Herr über alle Situationen."
Hauptmann Erich Hartmann, Gruppenkommandeur, I./JG 52, Russische Front, 1945

easymo · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2000, 01:36:00 AM »

The A5 has put the stick stirring back into the game. I shot down a few of them tonight. everyone of them was floping around like a dead fish. except 1.

bloom25 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 22, 2000, 01:43:00 AM »

I gave the a5 a try.

It's AWESOME! (All but the balistics of those MG FF cannon.) It's like a p51 that climbs, accelerates, and rolls better. It also seems to turn a bit better as well, though it shouldn't.

------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

Kieren · « **Reply #33 on:** June 22, 2000, 08:29:00 AM »

Wells-

I don't know what the loadouts were on those numbers; I just took the loaded weights of all the aircraft. I guess I need to post the empty weights as well....

Fw190-A5: Empty- 6,393 lb

P51B: Empty- 6,985 lb

F4U-1D: Empty- 8,695 lb

-lazs- · « **Reply #34 on:** June 22, 2000, 08:46:00 AM »

Well.... Told ya so. There was so little wiggle room for turn after having the A8 turn so well that now they have an A5 that easily outturns a P51. Also, Sure seemed to me that the A5 was able to warp roll/stick stir. Acceleration seemed (cough) odd.

Don't take out the A5... Leave it as is. go to the test that F4UdOA has posted that compares a Corsair and Hellcat with a captured A5 and also the test done with a -1 against a 51B. Now.... Make the Corsair perform against the A5 like the real life test... Make the Corsair accelerate exactly the same as the 190.... Make the Corsair roll exactly the same rate as the A5.... Make the Corsair easily outturn the A5 at any speed and gain one turn in three on the 190. Make the Corsair outurn the 51B.

Now... The A5 is right and once the Corsair and 51 are adjusted there will be only a few planes left to adjust. The game will play much faster and more realistically but of course.... You will have some warping/stick stiring and people will have less time to pet the cat and chat. or.... You could just find a "bug" in the A5/A8 turn/roll/acceleration and slow it/them down and keep the same "style" of fighting that AH players have become accustomed to.

How can you tell when the LW sis.. er, guys have an unfair advantage? They get real quiet.
lazs

Westy · « **Reply #35 on:** June 22, 2000, 08:47:00 AM »

I've seen that alot too Easymo. Hasn't worked none too well except to bleed thier E and it makes it easy to figure thier next move which is where the bullets go to meat their next "twist."
Hasn't induced any abnormal warps that I'd heard happened in WB's, that I can see.
A flicking and fast rolling 190 is doing the final death dance. Unless he has a bud coming in from higher up it's only a matter of seconds before that flopping 190 is shot down.

-Westy

Ripsnort · « **Reply #36 on:** June 22, 2000, 08:50:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -lazs-:

How can you tell when the LW sis.. er, guys have an unfair advantage? They get real quiet.
lazs

Lazs,Lazs,Lazs...<sigh>

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 06-22-2000).]

Dinger · « **Reply #37 on:** June 22, 2000, 08:51:00 AM »

Give it a couple weeks, then we'll see how many people opt for the a5.
Besides, if you take off the MG FFs, it really doesn't have that much of a punch relative to other AC. If you leave 'em in, it maneuvers bad and hits worse.
Oh and a terminological issue: "Stick Stir" is when people game the predictive motion algorithm and make their planes appear to do very weird stuff.
"Warp roll" is when a fast rolling plane appears to roll even faster because the predictive motion algorithm can't keep up with it. Warp rolls are a problem, but they don't imply that the pilot is "cheating" in the same way stick stirring does.

AKSeaWulfe · « **Reply #38 on:** June 22, 2000, 09:37:00 AM »

So, all these people out here carrying torches and screaming witchcraft about the 190A5, have ANY of you actually attempted a mock dogfight of the 190A5 versus the corsair, P51, spitfire(should be superior to it in all ways except low speed turns) or the other planes you are getting comparisons of it's performance to? You can't tell a damn thing from the MA. Just because a plane accelerated quickly away from you does NOT mean the plane is porked, he probably started from a higher E advantage point than you. It's nice to have these tests, but we have to initiate our own tests to match the data that the RL tests are providing us with. Back in WB a few squadmates of mine (this was long time ago.. 1.03 I think) took up 2 109Gs and 2 P51Ds and began a low altitude dogfight to see if WB's flight model was true. That being that 109Gs could defeat P51Ds at low alt low speed dogfight.. turns and climbs. The data came out that WB had a good FM relative to each other's performance (P51D vs 109G). Now, if no one wants to step forward and give this a try, I'll volunteer my service to piloting either of the aircraft in a 1vs1 situation. Don't get all upity if one aircraft wins the first time, that means nothing. Repeated tests and switching aircraft between both pilots will tell you if it's the plane or the pilot winning those matches. ex: if I fought kieren in the P51D and he in the 190A5 and he won, then we switched it he flew the P51D and I flew the 190A5 and he won again... must be because I suck, not the plane.
-SW
AKSeaWulfe+

F4UDOA · « **Reply #39 on:** June 22, 2000, 09:43:00 AM »

Wells,

I looked at the chart you pointed to. I'm not quite sure what you mean. The front page of the report states that the 1G stall was 110mph clean and 106mph dirty. Then it seems as there is a correction chart at the end but it does not state anything about the lower range. Actually Wells this is more disturbing than not seeing a report all.
HTC never seems to include any historic documentation in the past and now they are reading a report on the pitot tube error and altering the stall in the simm?? What the F@#$? I have provided multilple reports stating that the accelleration of the F4U should be better than the P-51 and equal to the FW190. Is HTC picking and choosing paragraphs of the reports and disregarding the rest? I think the P-51 could turn the Fw190 and I have never read anything stated in an evauluation that contradicts that. This type of catering to a segment of the gaming population will get me out of this gaming arena BFQ.

Anyway on another front. I was at the "Sounds of Freedom" airshow in Willow Grove Pa. this past weekend (the one where the F-14 crashed). And I was lucky enough to see a P-40, F4U-1D(FG-1D) and P51D all together from the air museum in Farmingdale Long Island. Anyway I talked to the pilot for about 20min. on the relative flight characteristics of both. I played stupid and just asked the questions. I don't have a big "I love the F4U" sign on my head. I ask about climb and turn. He said the F4U out climbs the P-51D up to 12,000ft and that it could out turn the Mustang at any alt because the wing design of the Mustang did not allow it turn as tightly. His name is
Dan Demeo and he is almost 60yrs old with 30yrs of stick time behind him. I will post the picks when I get them ASAP. Has HTC ever thought about interviewing a pilot on these subjects. Someone who fly's them currently in a restored pristine condition. The same pilot told me that they have a FW-190 although he had not flown it. I think some fresh information on the subject could be inline.

Later
F4UDOA

SIFTER · « **Reply #40 on:** June 22, 2000, 10:26:00 AM »

Why don't we convert over to Microsoft Flight Simulator and we can adjust our planes at will. Those Luftwaffe bastards! I know what ya mean Lazs! They piss me off all the time! Especially that bastard Berserkr. He flys that A-5 like a demon. I think he's adjusting the code. He's probly smart enough. And UDIE the guy he flys wing for? HE lives in Texas close to the servers at AH. He has a T1 right to the server.That bastard has been seen with Pyro? They made a deal to make sure he stays at the top of the dueling ladder! I'm so fed up I havn't flown since the third beta. I can't believe I almost paid thirty dollars on this damn thing. I think the best thing would be to make all the planes an F4-U then all the turn performances should compare pretty closely. I'm with you buddy keep up the fight! Ship them Luftwaffe bastiges back to Europe. At least they modeled the slowest turning Zero in the war.They didnt want it outturning the A-5. We should be able to handle that in the F4-c. Thanx bud!
Sifter

Zigrat · « **Reply #41 on:** June 22, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »

F4uDOA

If you are talking about the -4 then I believe you! If you are talking about the -1d or -c vs the 190 both at military power, then i believe you! But if you are talking about the -1d or 1c vs the 190 both at maximum wep and say the f4u can accelerate with the 190 then you are wrong. You mUST make clear which variants and power settings you are referring to.

Soup Nazi · « **Reply #42 on:** June 22, 2000, 10:44:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SIFTER:
I'm with you buddy keep up the fight! Ship them Luftwaffe bastiges back to Europe.
Sifter

NO SOUP FOR YOU! 1 WEEK!

------------------
Soup Nazi
NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Click here NOW!

[This message has been edited by Soup Nazi (edited 06-22-2000).]

Dingy · « **Reply #43 on:** June 22, 2000, 10:49:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kirin:
Come on Dingy,

I see enough Zekes and Yaks out there. Finally the LW got a capable, nimble dogfighter and everyone wants to take it away. Of course many people, especially JG2 (and that's a good part of the Knights) fly A5. Remember when the 109 variants were out? The sky was filled with em... then after some time the 109 was a quite rare sight (except JG2 again... )

The A5, if flown right, is deadly. It's something like a jack-of-all-trades - it's not the best at anything but good in all categories. I agree on that what RAM said, people are used to see 190A8 - now A5 is something different. All you CannonHog, Sissyfire and Runstang drivers a new kid is on the block ( ).

Kirin, I completely agree with you that its a Jack of All Trades. The only problem I see is that right now, since it is such a capable fighter, EVERYONE is flying them. 1 out of every 2 enemy I see are 190s and those numbers are identical for my countrymen. In fact, it IS such a capable plane, I have almost moved exclusively to it as well. THAT is why I say it has dulled the game.

Quote

The A5 still has nothing magic. E bleed is considerable when turning. Stall characteristics are squeakier than in A8 (or maybe in 1.02). Acceleration and climb are very good. Topspeed is decent but most will catch ya. Manouverability is good as long you don't turn horizontally. It's much harder now to rip wings off, did this all the time in A8, not yet happened to me in A5.

Completely agree. Anything you cant run from you can climb away from. And those guns are one pass wonders. Almost as lethal as my old Niks 20s.

Quote

All in all the A5 is my new love! (Hey times change, sry 109)

Yup, its everyones love, hence my point.

-Ding

Dingy · « **Reply #44 on:** June 22, 2000, 10:53:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
So, all these people out here carrying torches and screaming witchcraft about the 190A5, have ANY of you actually attempted a mock dogfight of the 190A5 versus the corsair, P51, spitfire(should be superior to it in all ways except low speed turns) or the other planes you are getting comparisons of it's performance to? You can't tell a damn thing from the MA. Just because a plane accelerated quickly away from you does NOT mean the plane is porked, he probably started from a higher E advantage point than you. It's nice to have these tests, but we have to initiate our own tests to match the data that the RL tests are providing us with. Back in WB a few squadmates of mine (this was long time ago.. 1.03 I think) took up 2 109Gs and 2 P51Ds and began a low altitude dogfight to see if WB's flight model was true. That being that 109Gs could defeat P51Ds at low alt low speed dogfight.. turns and climbs. The data came out that WB had a good FM relative to each other's performance (P51D vs 109G). Now, if no one wants to step forward and give this a try, I'll volunteer my service to piloting either of the aircraft in a 1vs1 situation. Don't get all upity if one aircraft wins the first time, that means nothing. Repeated tests and switching aircraft between both pilots will tell you if it's the plane or the pilot winning those matches. ex: if I fought kieren in the P51D and he in the 190A5 and he won, then we switched it he flew the P51D and I flew the 190A5 and he won again... must be because I suck, not the plane.
-SW
AKSeaWulfe+

Dunno about others but Im not screaming about inordinate performance numbers for the A5...

The point Im trying to make is that its a forgiving enough aircraft that a majority of pilots are flying them. There isnt the same plane variety in the skies as there was in the past.

-Ding