Author Topic: Me-410 a MUST for 1.09 (Read 970 times)

Soviet · « **on:** December 01, 2001, 09:29:00 PM »

After reading much about the Me-410 today I have to say i really love it. It's such a great plane that would be great to fly in AH. It would be a great Jabo fighter for the Luftwaffe.

Here's some stats of it

Source: Warplanes of the Luftwaffe
ISBN 0-7607-2283-8
----
Specifications
Messerschmitt Me-410A-1/U2

Type: Two-seat heavy fighter (Zerstorer)

Powerplant: two Diamler Benz DB 603A inverted V-12 engines, each rated at 1305.5kW(1,750 HP) for takeoff, and 1380kW (1,850 hp) at 2100m (6,890 feet)

Performance: max speed 507km/h (315 mph) at sea level, 624km/h (388 mph) at 6700m (21,980 feet) and 600km/h (373 mph) at 8000m (26,250feet); maximum cruising speed 587km/h (365 mph); range at max cruising speed 1200km (746 miles); range at economical cruise 1690km (1,050 miles)

Weights: Empty equipped 7518kg (16,574 lb); loaded 9651kg (21,276 lb)

Dimensions: wing span 16.35m (53ft 7in); length 12.48m (40ft 11in); height 4.28m (14ft 0in); wing area 36.20m squared (389.687 sq ft)

Armament: two 20-mm MG 151/20 cannons with 350RPG and four 7.9mm MG 17 machine guns with 1,000 RPG; two 13mm MG 131 machine guns with 500 RPG in remotely-controled FDSL barbettes

Bomb bay: Able to take 2 bombs of upto 500kg size (1,102 lb), attached to a rack which was lowered to drop the bombs and then hoisted back into the bombay

<S!>

Sachs · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2001, 09:44:00 PM »

And that was teh A version the B version had 1900 HP engines, reduction in most cases of the 7.9 and added the 13mm. Only to make another strong point the ability to also carry 4 100's on the wings along with the internal bomb bay. It is a very nice plane and I wouldm love to use it on Jabo missions as well. Did I mention the rockets it could carry too?

Tony Williams · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2001, 03:24:00 AM »

Some of them had the 50mm BK 5 automatic cannon as well

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://website.lineone.net/~a_g_williams/index.htm
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum: http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages

K West · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2001, 10:07:00 AM »

I was (or still am) kind of hoping it would be ready for the upcoming BigWeek scenario.
I'd much rather a 410 than a 110 for sure.

Westy

hazed- · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2001, 10:58:00 AM »

My book says:

Me 410A-1/U2
armament:four 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 7.92mm (0.31-in)MG 17 machine guns firing forward,plus two 13-mm (0.51-in) MG 131 machine guns in remotely-controlled rear-firing barbettes.

which is correct?

funkedup · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2001, 12:41:00 PM »

Hazed there are many armament variations for the 410. I believe both configurations are valid.

Sachs · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2001, 01:18:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hazed-:
My book says:

Me 410A-1/U2
armament:four 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 7.92mm (0.31-in)MG 17 machine guns firing forward,plus two 13-mm (0.51-in) MG 131 machine guns in remotely-controlled rear-firing barbettes.

which is correct?

Hazed the A1/U2 had an extra pair of 20mm with 250 rpg. Nice little knowledge thing was the installation was known as Waffenbehalter 151. SO you are correct.
BUt the B series is the bread winner, DB 603G engines instead of A series which equates to I think an extra 300 HP. We need it.

flakbait · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2001, 02:03:00 AM »

Squadron/Signal publications Me 210/410 in action.

Specifications
Wingspan: 53 ft 7 1/4 in
Length: 40 ft 11 1/3 in
Height: 14 ft .5 in
Empty Weight: 13,550 lbs
Max Weight: 23,500 lbs

Powerplant: 2x 1,750 hp Damlier-Benz DB-603A inverted V-12 engines

Armament [fixed]: 2x 7.92x57mm MG-17
2x 20x82.5mm MG 151-20
2x 13mm MG 131 in remote turrets

Speed: 388 mph
Service Ceiling: 32,800 ft
Range: 1,450 miles

Me-410 Rustsatz kits: added in addition of standard armament except where noted.

B6-R2: 2, Mk 108 30mm cannons in the bomb bay. Aircraft fitted with Zaunkonig radar in the nose. All normal nose armament deleted.
R2: 2, 30mm Mk. 108 cannons in the bomb bay in addition to normal armament.
R3: 2, 30mm Mk. 103 cannons in the bomb bay in addition to normal armament.
R4: 2, 20mm M.G. 151/20 20mm cannons in the bomb bay, 2 M.G. 151/20 20mm cannons in a pod on the belly behind the bomb bay in addition to normal armament.
U2-R5: 4, M.G. 151/20 20mm cannons in the bomb bay, 2 M.G. 17 7.92mm machine guns in the nose in addition to normal armament
R6: 2, M.G. 151/20 20mm cannons in the bomb bay in addition to normal armament.
B2-U4: 1, Bk 5 50mm cannon in the bomb bay. M.G. 17 machine guns deleted. Occasionally a Bk 3.7 37mm cannon replaced the Bk 5.
R7: All nose armament deleted in favor of reconnaissance cameras.
B-5: Tail guns replaced by a 187 gal. fuel tank. Additional fuel tank mounted in bomb bay. All ordinance carried externally.
Single 1,000kg SB 1000/410 bomb.
Single LT 5b torpedo [1,984 lbs].
Single LT 5i torpedo [1,675 lbs].
2x BT 200 or BT 400 torpedoes.
Single SC 1800 bomb.
Single 780kg SB 800 RS Kurt bomb.
B-1: M.G. 17 machine guns replaced with M.G. 131 guns
B1-U2: M.G. 17 machine guns replaced by M.G. 131 guns. 2, M.G. 151/20 20mm cannons installed in the bomb bay.
B-2/U-2: M.G. 17 machine guns removed. WB containers installed in the bomb bay. Options included:
2x 30mm Mk 108 cannons
2x 30mm Mk 103 cannons
4x 20mm M.G. 151/20 cannons

External ordinance:
2x 300 liter drop tanks
4x WGr. 21 rockets
6x 40mm 39M rockets
2x 250 or 500kg bombs

Typical bomb loads [internal]:
8x 50kg
2x 250kg
2x 500kg

Most of the M.G. 151/20 gun options had 250 rounds per gun. One had 350 rounds per gun, but I can't remember which. Note the R3 option: 2, 30mm Mk 103 cannons...

There is a famous picture of a revolving rocket launcher in the nose of a Me-410. That was a test aircraft. That load-out option was never mass produced due to extensive airframe damage suffered while test firing. All further tests were abandoned.

Cockpit shots can be posted at request.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think my maker wants to hear from me right now. I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

Tony Williams · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »

One of the things that makes me cautious about published specifications....people only ever talk about the 20mm MG 151/20 in relation to the Me 210/410. I have seen a photo with a caption stating that it showed armourers loading 20mm ammo belts into the plane. The only problem is that the ammo is very clearly that of the 15mm version....

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://website.lineone.net/~a_g_williams/index.htm
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum: http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages

Sachs · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2001, 04:43:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tony Williams:
One of the things that makes me cautious about published specifications....people only ever talk about the 20mm MG 151/20 in relation to the Me 210/410. I have seen a photo with a caption stating that it showed armourers loading 20mm ammo belts into the plane. The only problem is that the ammo is very clearly that of the 15mm version....

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://website.lineone.net/~a_g_williams/index.htm
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum: http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages

Very interesting Tony, would you happen to have any pics of these? I would love to see a plane added in here with the Mg 151/15. It is a very nice weapon and hits very hard along with a High ROF and excellent ballistics.

brady · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2001, 06:37:00 PM »

flakbait , I have the same book next to my computer I have been going over and over it for a while now on long flight's, and near as I can tell prety much every weapon the luftwaffe had in 44 was mounted on it at one time or another and in most cases in numbers large enough to be considered standard. imagine the gun load out option's for it in the hanger

Tony Williams · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2001, 01:42:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sachs:

Very interesting Tony, would you happen to have any pics of these? I would love to see a plane added in here with the Mg 151/15. It is a very nice weapon and hits very hard along with a High ROF and excellent ballistics.

Well, I've spent ages going through my books trying to locate that photo of an Me 210 being loaded with 15mm ammo but, of course, I can't find it

I am certain of it, however, as I corresponded with a friend about it at the time.

Also, I did find a pilot's handbook for the Me 410 A-1/U4 which lists its armament as one 50mm BK 5, two 15mm MG 151 and two 13mm MG 131.

While searching, I came across a photo of a Bv 138C-1 flying boat, which is supposed to have had a 20mm MG 151 in the nose turret, being reloaded with an ammo belt which looks like 15mm (the pic is a bit too small to be certain).

All this leads me to suspect that the 15mm version of the MG 151 may have been more widely used than is now thought. Maybe the Allies just assumed when they read "MG 151" that it would be the 20mm version?

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://website.lineone.net/~a_g_williams
Gun and ammunition discussions at: http://www.delphi.com/autogun/messages

Buzzbait · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2001, 01:47:00 AM »

S!

Lot more 110's in BIG WEEK historically than 410's.

Wilbus · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2001, 03:22:00 AM »

Me410 had lots and lots of different configurations. Basic armement remained 2x20mm and 4x7.9mm on most of them. However, they could equip different cannons in the bombbay, wich was the raised into the bombbay, doors shut thus making it an internal weapon. Some of these configurations were Semi automatic Pak anti tank cannon, 50mm using HE shells for anti bomber use and AP for anti tank use. It was fully automatic in the beginning but was made semi due to (not sure) either feed problems or jamming problems. Allso, 2x30mm Mk108 or Mk103 cannons could be fit, or 4x20mm (+ the 2 normal thus making 6x20mm) or 3xMk108/103 + 1x50mm cannon + normal arment. Allso, fully automatic 6 barreled rocket fireing system was fited, took time to make it work without damaging the airplane but it finally did work. Combat reports of the rocket system seem to have been lost. They could fit a number of bombs aswell. Not to forget, the Me410 was used a s fast light bomber aswell, and it was equiped with 2 rear firing 13mm MG131's or 2x20mm MG151's. These were fired by the tail gunner who controlled them remotley.

ADD THIS PLANE!!!

fats · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2001, 03:32:00 AM »

I thought 20mm is/was listed as MG 151/20 or MG 151/20E and the 15mm as MG 151. Most of the books make no such difference how ever.

// fats