Tank Turret Shells

[Die Hard]

I'm still waiting for that tank round...

[Strip]

I'm still waiting for that tank round...

I guess the laws of physics cease to apply as the round size increases...

It was fun while it lasted but I think its time to step away.

[Strip]

dude, go twittle urself, its like wrapping the round in paper and burning it...whatever the hell ur talking bout is more or less a small rocket propeled object, like an RPG r sum soup, we are talking about the chemicals the rounds are coated in to give them visibilty, and in planes, the tracer rounds are often described as basket-ball orange, or blood-red, personally i like our white tracers....

Please go learn basics of tracer rounds....the rounds aren't coated in anything.

In WW2 the IJN, I believe, used green, though I have personally seen green, white, red, yellow, orange, purple and blue.

[Motherland]

dude, go twittle urself, its like wrapping the round in paper and burning it...whatever the hell ur talking bout is more or less a small rocket propeled object, like an RPG r sum soup, we are talking about the chemicals the rounds are coated in to give them visibilty, and in planes, the tracer rounds are often described as basket-ball orange, or blood-red, personally i like our white tracers....

Usually it's a bad idea to flame someone who seems to have a deep knowledge of a subject (especially in Strip's case where he seems to have worked with these principles in a job of some sort...) when your knowledge is really very superficial and generally lacking.

[BrownBaron]

Usually it's a bad idea to flame someone who seems to have a deep knowledge of a subject (especially in Strip's case where he seems to have worked with these principles in a job of some sort...) when your knowledge is really very superficial and generally lacking.

In general, yes but his facts do not apply to the tracer round, its like me describing to you the effects of a hollow point round on human flesh, if you asked me about buckshot...

[Die Hard]

It was fun while it lasted but I think its time to step away.

Thought so.

[Strip]

In general, yes but his facts do not apply to the tracer round, its like me describing to you the effects of a hollow point round on human flesh, if you asked me about buckshot...

I suggest you go read the first line in the abstract portion of the research paper I posted, then look at the author.

[RipChord929]

No two tracers will ever burn the same, period!!! Some burn long, others just fizzle... Comparing solid rocket fuel, to burning tracer compounds, is just silly!!! Even tho rocket fuel may have some of the same chemicals, they ain't even close to being the same!!!  Cavity projectiles will never have the ballistic consistency to match a solid projectile, especially when that cavity is being emptied in flight, and in an inconsistant manner... Consistency=accuracy, Just the nature of the beast!!!

Then again tracers aren't supposed to be accurate.. They are supposed to tell everyone, shoot over there!!!
Unfortunately, Murphy's laws of combat apply here... #1, "Tracers work both ways!!!",  and #2, "Always remember that your weapons, (including tracer ammo) are always produced by the lowest bidder!!!" Jk!!

Tracers generally have a higher muzzle velocity, because they are generally lighter in weight... Combustable tracer compound is lighter than lead, so there ya go...  Vented base to eliminate the vortex drag behind the projectile? OK, fine, whatever, there is always someone dinking around with bullets... But why bother on small arms? Just to get a few feet per second?  Seems like a waste of development time, and retooling to me..
Just teach your troops to shoot straight instead!!!

RC

[Charge]

"Wouldn't it just be a black streak flying through the air."

On the receiving end basically yes. In practice you probably notice it only when it hits your armour. Depending on weather and daytime conditions you probably could see the tracer glow in some cases but I'm not sure since, luckily, I haven't had a privilege of ever being in the receiving end of such rounds so I can't really tell. That kind of feature in AH would mean that spotting a tank firing at you would be more difficult -unless you were looking at the opposite direction ie. direction where the round that possibly just missed you was flying...

Of course in lighter rounds the effect of uneven burn of tracer compound is more pronounced on projectile balance. I have read that it was quite common to see a MG tracer round suddenly change its direction when fired from an aircraft as it was burning its tracer compound and decelerating so the combined effect of unbalance and changing aerodynamic conditions did their tricks.

-C+

[Die Hard]

All this academics aside the most important thing to remember about tracers is this: As long as they're moving it's ok. If they're standing still, duck!

[Strip]

I have watched a few like that when getting near ack.....you can almost see the hit coming sometimes.

 

[Scotty55OEFVet]

Lushce,
    I usually hold your opinion in very high regard but in this case your mistaken. Tracer material is basically rocket fuel with a phosphorus or magnesium fuel, the percentages and chemical composition are very close. While it doesn't necessarily add speed it reduces base drag, lower drag means longer flight. Guess I will have to break out the .50 BMG round testing I did for military work.
Strip

                    Dude, I was in the Army for 3 1/2 years and worked as a Sapper(Demolitions mostly) and know...it is a magnesium powder that ignites when the firing pin hits the round.  Does nothing for velocity or distance.  Your talking about a larger round that travels a mile just on its charge.

[Strip]

Read the military abstract I posted on the other page, your own people wrote a paper disagreeing with that statement.

[olskool2]

I'm almost positive no one read the abstract.

Being a tracer round may not make the bullet/shell hit harder downrange, but having a higher muzzle velocity seems like it would lead to a flatter trajectory which would lead to easier aiming?

It just seems like this would occur because the end result would be a lighter round hitting the target at a higher velocity, probably roughly equaling the slightly heavier round hitting slower.

[Charge]

"but having a higher muzzle velocity seems like it would lead to a flatter trajectory which would lead to easier aiming?"

I don't think it affects the "muzzle" velocity as such, merely the drag when the round is flying i.e. flight velocity so the round will not decelerate as much due to drag. And I'd also think that how much it does that is affected by the size of the round and the size of the tracer component in relation to that. Or is there variation? Is the tracer portion usually the size of the rear end of the round or are there rounds which just have a small port from where the tracer glow discharges?

-C+