Author Topic: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made  (Read 11999 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10166
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #240 on: August 28, 2009, 11:09:03 PM »
So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?

Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.

why didn't you just PM him on this instead of a publicly open attack?   this makes you better in what way?

These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be.

go back and see my 1st post to this thread......... all gameplay issues is the players of the game.. how we mold the community and mold the game play.....

I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............ 

I bet hitech would listen with an open ear, if he did!!! but what does this have to do with this thread.........and again go back and read my 1st post in this thread......

cheerio good fellow  :aok
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #241 on: August 28, 2009, 11:26:47 PM »
May I request that a party trusted by the community test Lancasters offline for their structural breaking point. Attack your own CV.

1. Test for what point in a dive from 10k pulls the wings off as you pull out of the dive with no bombs and 50% fuel.
2. Test for what point dive bombing from 10k will pull the wings off, same fuel.
3. Replicate these tests again at 7k, 5k, and 3k.

Answer to all = 380 mph (airspeed) depending on dive angle and how hard you pull back on the stick, just using the elevator trim will do it if you use the same angle as a dive bomber. At 400+ they come off automatically.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #242 on: August 29, 2009, 12:02:39 AM »
So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?

Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.

These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be. And I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............ 
Dude what are you talking about..  Too much incentive to survive will make players fly more timidly. It's a real trend even now. Look at the score guys.  It's got nothing to do with me or my ego or anything in your rant.  It's simple fact, nothing more and nothing to do with ideology.  There's nothing denigrating in my posts.  Just plain straight to the point arguing of the facts.

Heck.. Look at WWII. Look at the squads that fly historically.  It's about surviving and picking your fights. You might be in the middle of a real hand-wetting fight, and have to bug out of it because making it home is a higher priority.  That means combat takes a back seat to landing safely.  I don't see how it's denigrating to point this out.

And FYI (and I'm being completely forthcoming here) I wouldnt complain to or try to convince HT that the game is going down the tubes because of cowards, or whatever strawman you imagine.  The first thing I'd talk to him about are the physics of the FMs, pick his brain on the strat mechanics of the game and air combat... And ask him about using the CT AI to give players 24/7 practice on pretty much anything feasible.. e.g. bring up the clipboard and click on "offensive practice > barrel roll", and then set the AI difficulty to "slightly better" than the player... so that it would adapt to the player and force him to push his best that bit further.  And then when either AI or player is shot down, click on "replay", and instantly the player is zoomed back to the start of that lesson/practice session.  That would be excellent tool for players.  They could have the AI flying any ACM in the whole encyclopedia of air combat, just a click away.

That's the type of thing I'd bend HT's ear on because I like taking stuff apart and putting it back together. I like systems. I like analyzing stuff.  If that makes for incisive debunking of erroneous arguments on the forum.. It's not out of ego or ideology or anything.  I just have a knack for debate and shaking things down.  It's not personal.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 12:31:50 AM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline kvuo75

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3003
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #243 on: August 29, 2009, 12:18:48 AM »
"Historically accurate" when? and Where?

The closest thing to it would be the skip bombing mostly used in the PTO, against shipping, and mostly using medium bombers. The A-20, B-25s. The B-17s were used but not as much. Even then the bombers came in level, hosing their targets with forward guns, releasing their bombs and then gaining altitude as they went over their targets.

There was no real life comparison to dive bombing GVs in heavy 4 engined bombers.


Ok, I readily admit I have no actual history. I'm going by what RTholmes posted months ago, from a period lanc POH that was posted, where it showed max "dive" bombing angle at 30 degrees.  Whether it was ever done in real life, I have no idea. I accept that is probably was not.

I think I might be questioning what people consider "dive bombing"... A lanc at 3000agl dropping on a gv is not necessarily "dive bombing", especially when he is starting the "dive" 2 miles out.. 

PS. I never fly lancs, and the last time i did, it wasnt against gv's.

kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline mnotsayn

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #244 on: August 29, 2009, 02:09:09 AM »
HighTech makes graphic updates because they think it will keep customers. If it looks more cool, it will be more cool. This is nonsense. There is an old expression. "Less is more".

Why add all this crap? You people can not even process over the internet the information from my fighter stick. Now, you are going to add water that looks like a quilt my grandmother crocheted back in 1925? What are you all, stupid?

If you want customers, and if you want people to stop leaving the "game", make it a game.

I read on the bulletin boards years ago, some guy said, "man , I get home form work, and all I want to jump on-line and have some fun fights".

There is no "fun", at least not for me. Only stupidity. What fun is it for 10 green guys to chase one red guy, or 10 red guys to chase one green guy?

This is why people leave the game. I spent 3 hrs tonight and not a single fight that made any sense what so ever. There was only, as usual, nothing but stupidity.

If you want customers, HighTech, make it a game. Present a challenge your customers can learn and grow into. A game is not a game if it does not make sense and if there is no "challenge". Challenge is what to "game" means. It has always been this way. This is what needs fixing, not the graphics.




He was a bit offensive, and abrasive. But he still had a point, and allot of people are saying the same thing. Its the same gripe you here in any game that is being "Fixed", stop with the NEW stuff, fix the old problems Be for making new ones.
 Why is it that the same people that go from post to post slamming others Never have any thing positive to contribute? All you do is slam others to no usefull end and take away from the REAL reason for the forums to addres some ones problem not make new ones. Grow some self respect it helps to so you know how to show some for others. His point was valid, he pays for the game and like allot of people do he can stop paying for it to and if allot do then it stops being. This game is not one of a kind but it is good and can, (like anything Man makes) be better. How can it be better, is what the forums are for, not to come and disrespect others to bolster your own sagging self image. So offer something that is use full, Even if its just keeping silent if you don't have any thing usefull. Just tired of the slamming for no reason Sorry to be off point. Fix the maps Less nifty desighns more realistick. Fix the curent equipment, ask for tips if you dont know whats broke. and Get rid of the Supper trees and shrubs that can flip a Tiger tank like it was a rag dall. my peevs,, thanks. :D




Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26803
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #245 on: August 29, 2009, 02:13:44 AM »
So what if no one looses their life by going balls out in every situation and we should all have no fear because you say so Moot. Who made you god to judge in this game short of your personal EGO need to denigrate players or people in general for not living up to your fantasies of game ideology? Your statement is an old canard which sets whole groups of PAYING CUSTOMERS in a group class below your self anointment to GOD of Aces High2 morality. How they play the game is THEIR expression of $14.95 a month. You have now relegated their hard earned money to be worth less than yours. Has HiTech ever publicly, privatly, or other wise given you the right as a HTC spoksman to denegrate paying customers for their game play choices?

Do you ever see HiTech denigrate whole groups of paying customers the way you freely do on this BBS, especialy now that you are a member of the Aces High Traning Group? I've always had the impressing the HTC Trainers were chosen for having their EGO's under control.

These discussons seem to devolve into the complainers and game play officiondos wanting only those who are worthy of thier ideals playing the game or suffering red badges of cowerdness and scorn. What a nose bleed blue blooded special place they want Aces High to be. And I bet Moot has never taken HiTech aside and spoken in a heart to heart manner about how the game is being ruined by all the panty waste cowards and riff raff............ 

Wow you sound like your ego is hurt.

All I saw posted was about how timid some folks fly. It does take away from the game. Doesn't mean they are not allowed to fly that way though. Once they have been in the game awhile they'll learn it is all about fun..... why run.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Grind

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 194
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #246 on: August 29, 2009, 02:55:11 AM »
Why gang?  3s a crowd.
“All your base are belong to us”

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #247 on: August 29, 2009, 04:02:36 AM »
They dont start their dive from that far out in the game. In fact they dont start their dives much different then the Jabos do. You dont even have to be 1,000 yrds up either, only 1,000 away for the bombs to work.


Ok, I readily admit I have no actual history. I'm going by what RTholmes posted months ago, from a period lanc POH that was posted, where it showed max "dive" bombing angle at 30 degrees.  Whether it was ever done in real life, I have no idea. I accept that is probably was not.

I think I might be questioning what people consider "dive bombing"... A lanc at 3000agl dropping on a gv is not necessarily "dive bombing", especially when he is starting the "dive" 2 miles out.. 

PS. I never fly lancs, and the last time i did, it wasnt against gv's.


"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #248 on: August 29, 2009, 04:22:01 PM »
...
The way I see it, this is basically arguing that an inanimate environment is more decisive for resulting gameplay than are the active agents that players are.  I could see how this would be true if either the inanimate scene that players act on was especially restrictive, or if the players were perfectly disciplined.  But they aren't so disciplined nor very homogeneous at all, and the game (for some basic reasons, not least of which is that fun and tactical freedom are top priorities) isn't all that restrictive: you can switch sides every hour, there aren't any historical restrictions (e.g. plane choice or rolling plane set), no one tells you what to do - you can fly whatever kind of sortie you want... and so on.  It's players that are the single most decisive factor in gameplay, and they will be so long as the game is as open ended as it is now, in the MA.  In fact....  Look at the DA lake today, and years ago, for a slightly more extreme example of laissez-faire gameplay. 
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #249 on: August 29, 2009, 04:29:47 PM »
Wow you sound like your ego is hurt.

All I saw posted was about how timid some folks fly. It does take away from the game. Doesn't mean they are not allowed to fly that way though. Once they have been in the game awhile they'll learn it is all about fun..... why run.

I honestly see more aggression to the point of stupidity than I do timidity. The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #250 on: August 29, 2009, 04:37:01 PM »
The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?
Doesn't that only point to a minority killing the remaining majority?
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12320
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #251 on: August 29, 2009, 04:41:57 PM »
Quote
The average k/d is what, less than 1 after all?

Well of course the average K/D is less than 1, it is impossible to be greater than 1.

For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.

HiTech


Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15619
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #252 on: August 29, 2009, 04:48:04 PM »
Well of course the average K/D is less than 1, it is impossible to be greater than 1.

For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.

HiTech


Ouch...
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16330
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #253 on: August 29, 2009, 05:07:24 PM »
I read BnZ as meaning average k/d is very low, pointing to most players dying much more than killing.  His suggestion, then, that that's from flying "unsafely" rather than "safely". 
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Lord ReDhAwK

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 481
      • http://www.revivecomputing.com/aggressors
Re: It ain't the graphics that are bad, its the way the game is made
« Reply #254 on: August 29, 2009, 05:21:18 PM »
For every Kill there must be a death. but for ever death there does not need to be a kill (I.E crash into the ground like me), Hence # of deaths must be >= number of kills. So K/D must always be <= 1.

HiTech

Ow, Ow, Ow.  <Rubs head>

ReDhAwK :confused:
C.O.
The Aggressors