Author Topic: 109G-10 and K-4 (Read 3017 times)

Vermillion · « **Reply #30 on:** March 23, 2000, 07:11:00 AM »

Aper, I was just going from that one little paragraph on the K6.

To be honest the K6 is so rare I have seen very little information on it, but admittedly I am not a 109 fanatic and lack a comprehensive indepth 109 library (I have a few, but not alot).

Looking thru my normal references, it seems like they generally agree that the K6 had wing mounted 30mm cannons. But some say mk103 and some say mk108. Some say wing mounted, and some say gondola's.

Nice picture Elp, Where did you get it?

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

niklas · « **Reply #31 on:** March 23, 2000, 11:59:00 AM »

As far as i know, both rows of cylinders in the engine were filled with the same pressure.
But one row was closer to the supercharger. Whenever a liquid or a gas is flowing in a pipe, you have a loss of pressure. So they needed for the row that was a bit farer away a slightly higher pressure to compensate the bigger loss.

niklas

Elp · « **Reply #32 on:** March 23, 2000, 03:07:00 PM »

I belive this drawing came from 'Messerschmitt "O-Nine" Gallery' ( ISBN 0 91414 400 6) but I don't have the book

K-6 has 3 MK 108 cannons
K-8 has one modified MK 103 cannon firing through the propellor huband and 2 x 20 mm mg 151/20 or 2 x 30mm Mk108 wing mounted
Me K-8:

The Me K-4 had 2 x 20-mm in the underwing tubs ( JG 26 )

If you like our Bf 109G10 and , take a look at http://www.hyperscale.com/reference/bf109detailbg_1.htm

funked · « **Reply #33 on:** March 23, 2000, 06:04:00 PM »

LOL The pilot is going to have a heck of a time pushing the stick forward.

RAM · « **Reply #34 on:** March 24, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elp:
(Image removed from quote.)

I WANT K-8 I WANT I WANT!!!
hehehe

(Image removed from quote.) (Image removed from quote.) (Image removed from quote.)

Hristo · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2000, 11:11:00 AM »

Me too, me too !

Well, Mk 103 in K-4 would do.

Vermillion · « **Reply #36 on:** March 24, 2000, 12:50:00 PM »

Was the K8 actually produced? Even a prototype? I was under the impression that it didn't make it off the drawing board before the end of the war.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

juzz · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2000, 08:31:00 PM »

How about a K-14 with DB605L then? 450mph at 37,000ft with MW 50.

Or: DB605D with GM1, which is almost as good.

Elp · « **Reply #38 on:** March 25, 2000, 02:08:00 AM »

I don't know if Me109K8 whit 103Mk saw combat or not. But K6 was build and flew at end of 44.
K-6 was an K-4 whit more two Mk108. K-6 used gondolas or gun-pods and not guns fixed in the wings.
Speed:
K-4.......728 km/h ( 452 mph )
weight....3374 kg ( 7438 lbs )
G-2
weight....3280 kg
K4 was only 94kg ( 207lbs ) heavier than G-2!

K-6.......704 km/h ( 437 mph )
weight....3596 kg ( 7927 lbs )

About Me 109K-14, 2 units were made and they were send to Jagdgeschwader 52 ( Caidin ). K-4 and K-14 has the same speed.
Squadrons that used 109K series:
Jagdgeschwader 77 "Herz As"
Jagdgeschwader 11
Jagdgeschwader 26 "Schlageter"
Jagdgeschwader 52
Jagdgeschwader 53

veltro · « **Reply #39 on:** March 25, 2000, 06:06:00 PM »

Quote

I don't know if Me109K8 whit 103Mk saw combat or not. But K6 was build and flew at end of 44. K-6 was an K-4 whit more two Mk108. K-6 used gondolas or gun-pods and not guns fixed in the wings.

Only the Bf 109 K-4 was put into production and saw operational service since late October 1944. All the other variants were only experimental and most of them weren't even realized as a prototype... These data are by now been ascertained fully. It is enlightening however to look at the Luftwaffe losses data for 1945 where only K-4 (no K-2, K-6, or K-8) are listed...

Quote

About Me 109K-14, 2 units were made and they were send to Jagdgeschwader 52 ( Caidin). K-4 and K-14 has the same speed.

Even if this was reported as late as the end of the '80s, further researches have ascertained that no prototype of the DB 605L was ever completed, so no K-14 could be realized, the only reason for its existence being the new engine... and IMHO Caidin wasn't an accurate source for anything more than fantasy and fictions, believe me!

Hope this is of some help.

All the best and ...L'E' BUNA !

_/_/_/_/
_/ Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico
_/_/_/'PR' of 4 Stormo Caccia
_/e-mail: veltro@warbirds.org
_/

Pongo · « **Reply #40 on:** March 25, 2000, 10:29:00 PM »

Have any of you heard about Saburo Sakais problems with caidin. Samarai is a good book but apparently much of it was fabricated or made up by Caidin. Guy is definatly disreputable I believe.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

Elp · « **Reply #41 on:** March 25, 2000, 11:40:00 PM »

I know Caidin sometimes made funny mistakes. But Pierre Clostermann in his book "Big Show" wrote about 109K-14 as used by Germans during the war. Also, he described a combat against 109K where the 109s were using this kind of armament:
2 20mm + 1 30 mm + 2 heavy guns
I belive he is talking about Me-109K6 ( "Tempest vs Messerschmitt" ).
So, according Clostermann, Me 109 K-14 and K-6 were used by Germans.

Sorry my english

wells · « **Reply #42 on:** March 26, 2000, 12:11:00 AM »

There are performance charts for K4 with 605L engine...posted here somewhere!

danish · « **Reply #43 on:** March 26, 2000, 04:11:00 AM »

Closterman is truly a great novelist, but when it comes to trusting him on the K14 Ill have to turn him down (cant remenber he wrote it though - are you sure?).
No reserarch that I am aware of shows K10 and K14 further than project stage.

Further on Closterman he himself claimed 23 kills wich is later downgraded some: I think the official number is 11.

Anyways the K6 will be a pig with those wingmounted cannons.I dont want it - trust me you wont either ;=)

danish

veltro · « **Reply #44 on:** March 26, 2000, 09:10:00 AM »

Quote

I know Caidin sometimes made funny mistakes.

Quite an amusing concept of "funny"...

Quote

But Pierre Clostermann in his book "Big Show" wrote about 109K-14 as used by Germans during the war. Also, he described a combat against 109K where the 109s were using this kind of armament:2 20mm + 1 30 mm + 2 heavy guns I belive he is talking about Me-109K6 ( "Tempest vs Messerschmitt" ). So, according Clostermann, Me 109 K-14 and K-6 were used by Germans.

I consider "The Big Show" the best aviation book ever, but from this to state that Clostermann had a such a deep and detailed technical knowledge of the German aircraft he met in the air, to be even able to determine the version and sub-variant, there goes a long, long way...

Most of the pilots didn't even remember what exact version of a plane they were flying (and I have interviewed a lot of them of several coutries), let alone know exactly what they were encountering in the air in split-second moments...! Please, get real!

Clostermann most probably collected the data after the war and, considering that the book was written in 1948, the sources he had available were rather poor...to say the least!

Just my 2 cents.

All the best and ...L'E' BUNA !

_/_/_/_/
_/ Ferdinando 'veltro' D'Amico
_/_/_/'PR' of 4 Stormo Caccia
_/e-mail: veltro@warbirds.org
_/

[This message has been edited by veltro (edited 03-26-2000).]

Author Topic: 109G-10 and K-4 (Read 3017 times)

Elp

funked

Elp

veltro

Elp

veltro