game dynamic changed

[bmwgs]

Hmm...Even if its the right direction in historical accuracy?

Historical Accuracy?   This is an argument some like to use when it fits their opinions.  Sure the Wirbel turret turn rate is historically accurate now, but since GVs are lit up like a casino in Vegas, it's a no brainier to spot and drop an egg on one.  I like it when the "historical accurate" argument starts.  There are many things in this game that are not historically accurate.  Many aspects of flying are not historically accurate.  

If you want historically accurate then lets do it, not just some aspects of it.  I say HiTech bring on the weather, night time, fuel mixtures, remove the icons, and when you die, the game is over for you.  Game wouldn't last long would it?

In my opinion slowing down the Wirbel turret rate is not a good idea.  It just made base taking easier in non peak hours.  One or two wirbels used to be able put up some-what of a defense, but now I don't see where they would have much effect.  Maybe the turret rate was to fast, but for game play maybe there needs to be a compromise of somewhere in between, but please don't use the historically accurate argument, because it just doesn't float.

Just an ending note.  I like the game and don't have any real complainants.  I have my opinions as to what should be changed, improved, or implemented, but I don't use the historical accurate platform, because it just doesn't apply.

 

My opinion.

Fred  

[bmwgs]

Did you have the same concern when the Wirbel was introduced in tour 98 and did instantly had a massive impact on gameplay? (A much greater change than the one than we have now with a simple reduction of turret rotation speed, while firepower stays the same)

Since the patch has only been out a couple of days, how can one determine how game play is effected (good or bad)?  I don't think there has been enough time to evaluate the effect of the turret rate concerning the game, we all just have opinions right now.  When the Wirbel was introduced, the OST turret rate was not reduced, now it is, big difference, and now hard to compare.

 

Fred

[trotter]

Thank goodness I don't rely on ground vehicles to make a flight sim fun...  

I started reading this thread from the top and stopped right when I saw this. No more point, this is the absolute truth.

[texastc316]

See Rule #4

[lyric1]

Problem is it is too easy to spot enemy gv's from air with fat neon signs hanging there .
Can can easily be solved by lower icon ranges when looking from an aeroplane to GV's . That makes the tracking time shorter and gv's less vulnerable to  planes.

I would disagree with this comment. With the new terrains GV's are so much harder to spot,before I could pick out GV's from 14k up & 6k back & could tell you most likely what they are. Now you have to get within icon range just to find them & with flacks even with the correct turret configuration & some one who knows how to use it,that close is almost always going to get you hit.

[Dadsguns]

I started reading this thread from the top and stopped right when I saw this. No more point, this is the absolute truth.

Since you didnt take the time to read the entire post before you made your comment, the absolute truth past right over your head.   

[The Fugitive]

Its a game folks. There are a number of things that have changed in the years I've been here. Some by HTC, some by the players themselves. The one constant is the player base WILL adapt. Sometimes a change like this will bring out some new dweebery, other times it will make the game a much more fun experience as the players adjust.

[Rich46yo]

First of all this aint just a wirbelwhine post.Its still early doors yet but I feel the game dynamic has/is changing for the worse. GV assualts on town are way too vunerable now without a greater number of ostie/wirb support. All the defenders in numerous ground sorties no long bother to drive tanks to repel the assault,its simply a matter of upping il2's and 110's and razing everything to the ground. Rinse and repeat.

Translation : I'm a Tank Queen and I want to setup GV camps at airbases without airplanes interfering and I want to be able to rinse and repeat same.

The WIRBLE and OST WERE FIXED, not broken.
Now I do agree the 37mm cannons on the IL2 need a little something done with them, but otherwise...

Translation : "Geld them to unhistorical levels so they stop shooting my tanks up. You Know? The Tanks with the 20mm top armor with the NS-37 cannon that could, in reality, shoot thru 50mm of armor at 400 m."

this thread is CHOCK FULL of win, baby!
Fight the old stale bulletin board hierarchy   ........ham and eggers UNITE!!!  this is OUR board!!!
let them eat cake........... we want our game back.

Translation : I dont want my tank killed by airplanes when I'm GV'ing near airbases.

I agree with the OP... It was easy to pork the tankers before, now its revoltingly easy..
IMO, Definately going the wrong direction, gameplay wise...

Translation : I dont want any threat from airplanes, around airbases, as we had before, unless its from bombs. And those I can take care of quickly with one throwaway Typhie run. Now its exceedingly easy to get killed around an airbase, by an airplane, that was the most accomplished GV killer of its era. Something needs changing. The hanging dice and chrome rims of my lowrider keeps getting singed.

Problem is it is too easy to spot enemy gv's from air with fat neon signs hanging there .
Can can easily be solved by lower icon ranges when looking from an aeroplane to GV's . That makes the tracking time shorter and gv's less vulnerable to  planes.

Translation : I want to be able to drive in a straight "conga" line to a town or airbase, shooting at ridiculous ranges with tracers visible, and without using available cover effectively. I want to do it near airbases and without airplanes being able to kill me.

If you want historically accurate then lets do it, not just some aspects of it.  I say HiTech bring on the weather, night time, fuel mixtures, remove the icons, and when you die, the game is over for you.  Game wouldn't last long would it?

Translation : I know that they know, that I know, that they know, that I know THEY only want Historical changes that helps THEIR style of gameplay and makes them look better. We all know that I know that they know that I know they dont want any changes that would crimp THEIR style. BMW knows it and so do I.


Thanks for the early Sunday   some of you.

[oTRALFZo]

All this hipe over the speed of a turret? The WW will and always be a point and shoot weapon in AH.  Slowing down the turret doesnt change the game dynamics at all. Just means you have to adopt newer tactics when using it. I always keep in mind how slow the Tigers turret is when Im going in a GV battle, or how horrible the roll rate is in my Typh when I up one. Its just a tiny change to the game IMO. Once people get used to it, the complaints will go away.

[j500ss]

Historical Accuracy?   This is an argument some like to use when it fits their opinions. Sure the Wirbel turret turn rate is historically accurate now, but since GVs are lit up like a casino in Vegas, it's a no brainier to spot and drop an egg on one.  I like it when the "historical accurate" argument starts. There are many things in this game that are not historically accurate. Many aspects of flying are not historically accurate.  

If you want historically accurate then lets do it, not just some aspects of it.  I say Hi Tech bring on the weather, night time, fuel mixtures, remove the icons, and when you die, the game is over for you. Game wouldn't last long would it?
  

I agree with this one 100%. But doing it would register a huge WHINE from many in the game. It would get us closer to a true flight sim, which is what most seem to believe the game really is.

I would disagree with this comment. With the new terrains GV's are so much harder to spot,before I could pick out GV's from 14k up & 6k back & could tell you most likely what they are.

They are not that much harder to spot, HTC just gave them more cover to work with on the ground. Which ends up being irrelevant anyways, cause the bombs will go through the thickest of trees and blow ya up anyways.


As someone who does both ( gv's and flies)  but does neither very well,   personally I could care less what they do, or did to the wirble.  Like it or not, a good fight in the air, is no different on the ground, it's a good fight!!!!  

Example: An air base near water, you got cons coming in from a carrier dropping the town and with fighter support. It's all air to air, as the first thing dropped is the VH. Its all good and fun, till someone drops the carrier with lancs @ 3k. Fight is over    .  You've all been there and know what I mean.

Example 2:  A gv fight, for a gv base. Its a blast, the same elements of the fight are all there, the out maneuvering, patience, SA, and gunnery.  I've seen them go on for an hour or more. Then come the bombers at low level. fight is over  

Some nights, I just don't feel like putting in the effort to fly, I'm waxed from my real job. I just want to play around, have some fun, and chew the fat with some of the guys in the squad, on country, and in the arena.  Other times I want to fly, the game allows me to do that ( it allows ALL of us to do that) .  This game is not perfect, it in all likely hood it never will be, but HTC is doing what they feel to be best, to make it as good as it can possibly be, with the info and numbers that are out there to work with.  We do not have real life test pilots, gunners, bombardiers, and gv drivers who can tell us, "yep that's exactly how it flew, drove, or shot in real life"  there is reference material, op manuals, tech specs, and some other stuff, after that its all up to computers and the people telling the computers how to make things in the game act the way they do.

There are many who disagree with how I look at this sim/game, but ya know in the end, its about fun, and a good time, with some realism thrown in. I have a real life and a real job, this is supposed to be fun, and for me it is  

    To all, and especially HTC!  

[Stoney]

Historical Accuracy?   This is an argument some like to use when it fits their opinions.  Sure the Wirbel turret turn rate is historically accurate now, but since GVs are lit up like a casino in Vegas, it's a no brainier to spot and drop an egg on one.  I like it when the "historical accurate" argument starts.  There are many things in this game that are not historically accurate.  Many aspects of flying are not historically accurate.

You know, you're absolutely right.  There are game mechanics, such as icons, that are not "historically accurate".  But, the game is designed to acheive fidelity with performance, both in the air and on the ground.  The aircraft have their "historically accurate" amounts of horsepower.  They roll at real-life rates.  They fly at the real-life speeds.  GV's roll at real-life speeds. 

The only "balancing" mechanism that exists in this game is ENY and the perk system.  Game balance is not achieved by nerfing or boosting a particular weapon system below or beyond its performance criteria.

You want to debate the reality of game mechanics, go ahead.  That's a different topic. 

[Rich46yo]

Im amazed they are able to create such a realistic inner-space that draws so many older History hounds.

I think the AH staff does a tremendous job.

[Saxman]

Problem is it is too easy to spot enemy gv's from air with fat neon signs hanging there .
Can can easily be solved by lower icon ranges when looking from an aeroplane to GV's . That makes the tracking time shorter and gv's less vulnerable to  planes.

Ok, seriously, the visibility of vehicles from the air is so UNBELIEVABLY misunderstood. A vehicle on the move WOULD stick out like a fat neon sign hanging there. First you just have motion, and motion is easier to spot than something standing still to begin with. That's why animals that evolved the best camouflage to blend in with their environments general spend all their time NOT MOVING. Then you have everything that comes with a multi-ton tank on the move: dust, debris, tank tracks, foliage being smashed and pushed down, etc.

The only thing that made a tank difficult to spot from the air during the war was IF IT WAS SITTING PERFECTLY STILL UNDER COVER.

Now I'd agree to lower icon ranges for a vehicle that's shut down, especially if it's operating on a terrain tile with cover (we don't really have enough trees in the ground clutter, but reduced icon range on forest vs. grass would simulate the denser foliage) but a vehicle on the move SHOULD be easily spotted.

[ACE]

HTC should take out the GVs and fill the slots with the rest of the P-38 variants.

 +1   

[Spikes]

Translation : "Geld them to unhistorical levels so they stop shooting my tanks up. You Know? The Tanks with the 20mm top armor with the NS-37 cannon that could, in reality, shoot thru 50mm of armor at 400 m."

Your translation: Wrong.

As a general question how many IL2's were equipped with the 37mm cannons?