Question about a P-51 maneuver

[toonces3]

Hello gents.

I posted this video up in another forum...strangely enough, one focused on jets rather than prop-driven planes.  Yet, the maneuver performed by the P-51 in the video has stirred up all sorts of controversy.  The kicker was when one fella said, "I tried to do that in IL-2 and the plane just stalled, so it's impossible."    

Ok, so here's the deal.  I am 90% certain that like a year or more ago we had a discussion about this maneuver.  It's some sort of rudder snap roll reverse type thingy.  My reply to Mr. Clueless above, well...let's just see what you say.

Here's the video in question.  The maneuver I am referring to is at about 0:45-0:51.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI&NR=1

I realize it's the History Channel and all that...but I'm pretty sure we've discussed this over here at AH2 and decided that it can be done as portrayed.  But I defer to your expert opinions; I never was very good in the Pony.

<S>

Toonces

[HB555]

That seems like an awfully quik reversal for almost any aircraft.
If it was on the History Channel, it may have been just an animated scene, but that is just a guess on my part.
Either way, enjoyed the clip.

[Spikes]

I do remember discussing this maneuver...not sure where though.

[Bronk]

IIRC Widewing can tell you all about it.

[SPKmes]

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,222522.msg2684356.html#msg2684356


This may be the one you want. It has a gif of the maneuver as can be done in AH

[Steve]

IIRC Widewing can tell you all about it.

*locks widewing and Tango in a closet*

[mensa180]

Can this maneuver be pulled off in AH?

[toonces3]

I knew I'd seen it before (apparently over and over and over and over...).

Thanks guys, that was the info I was looking for!

oh, and Il-2 sucks!  AH2 rules!   

[Krupinski]

Another cool move able to be done in Aces High... (3:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTbHoI4TCM8

[uptown]

 

[toonces3]

LOL. 

I miss Kennyhayes...hope that clown is doing ok.   

[MutleyBR]

Hi Toonces3 and friends!

The video is an animation.

And History Channel's animations, usually are not accurate.

The P51 in that video does a "helicopter" move. VERY low forward speed, kick on left rudder and consequent rotation around vertical axis(yaw).

If one does that in a high performance airplane, very low fwd speed, i.e., near stall, and kick rudder, chances are that the plane goes into a spin, and a flat one , by the way... Most of the times, impossible to come out.

I do a different manouever. Letīs say, I'm on a Pony or Yak-9U, fighting a Spit VIII, A6M or any other tight turner.

Enemy passes by and enters a TIGHT left turn. I know I won't be able to follow him into that turn.
I point nose down and look UP, or FORWARD+UP to keep my eyes on the enemy and do an aileron roll, following enemy direction of turn(in this case, left).

When my gunsight is ahead of enemy, stop the roll, pull nose up and BAM!

Will rummage through my AH films, when I find a suitable example, I'll post it here.

The manouever as seen the History Channel film cannot be done exactly as it is shown. IMHO.

Mutley

[SPKmes]

*locks widewing and Tango in a closet*

What on earth possessed you to let them out in the first place.

[Steve]

What on earth possessed you to let them out in the first place.

Well it was a mistake.  The 51 haas a couple of awesome reversal or "shake" moves and one is very similar to what we are discussing. It seems weird for from a flight physics standpoint but I'm no expert on the subject. I can pull the moves though.

[Chalenge]

Its supposed to be a snap roll but the animator didnt setup the move properly and got the physics wrong besides. Its a cross-control manoeuvre and with the P-51s acceleration its a one chance type move.