Updated ENY values for Planes

[Ack-Ack]

Dive sucks on the p38l but its a 15, in every other aspect ki out preforms the 38L and Hogs.

Skyhawk

Dive doesn't suck in the P-38L, well, if you're not very good in flying the P-38L I guess it could be.


ack-ack

[CAP1]

Hehe Madda! It was sort of a relative thing, ie. if this moves that should move relative to it.

If ENY is based on popularity of choice only (performance doesn't figure into it?!!! seems cockeyed) it basically is a vote then. All we have to do is ALL of us fly say the LA7 for a camp. It should jack its popularity through the roof  and make it a perk plane. All we have to do is ALL agree. . .

Ok that's the end of that proposal .

I think Delirium's point that ENY doesn't affect side switchers is sort of missed here. It points to the question of whether loyalty to a side makes any difference at all. If it doesn't, why does so much of the game infrastructure support it? If it does, why is ENY allowed to function as a mechanism to penalize those that don't switch?

There are individuals and squads that are exploiting this aspect of ENY constantly, to the detriment of the country system. At the very least, limiting side switching should be a consideration. <ducks the storm to follow>

side switchers help everyone.....assuming they're doing it for the purpose of evening up the sides.

[Karnak]

That is because basing ENY values on whatever the History channel has been hyping lately is in fact meaningless, useless.

Though the changed ENYs are apparently not based on some esoteric combination of usage and k/d, else it would be hard to explain the rise in the ENY of La7, N1K, or even P-47N for that matter.

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of the History channel.  Plane usage is much too stable for that argument to be valid.  The P-51D is a very, very capable fighter, despite its short comings.  It has high speed, coupled with great handling at high speed, something that very few aircraft have in AH.  Your argument that it doesn't matter if 95% of the players flew it exclusively is also incorrect as it would destroy the enjoyment of the game for many people via the dearth of variety.  The P-51D has much heavier use than the La-7 and N1K2-J, both of which lost a substantial percentage of their usage when they were updated.

BTW Karnak, recently had a chance to read "Startide Rising", "Sundiver" and the "Uplift War" as well. Brin write anymore in that series?

There is a trilogy that comes after, and in this case it is actually a trilogy not just three stories, loosely related, in the same universe.  The pace is quite a bit slower, but there are some good parts and he says there is more to come.

Brightness Reef
Infinity's Shore
Heaven's Reach

[CAP1]

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of the History channel.  Plane usage is much too stable for that argument to be valid.  The P-51D is a very, very capable fighter, despite its short comings.  It has high speed, coupled with great handling at high speed, something that very few aircraft have in AH.  Your argument that it doesn't matter if 95% of the players flew it exclusively is also incorrect as it would destroy the enjoyment of the game for many people via the dearth of variety.  The P-51D has much heavier use than the La-7 and N1K2-J, both of which lost a substantial percentage of their usage when they were updated.
There is a trilogy that comes after, and in this case it is actually a trilogy not just three stories, loosely related, in the same universe.  The pace is quite a bit slower, but there are some good parts and he says there is more to come.

Brightness Reef
Infinity's Shore
Heaven's Reach

i've seen a couple of people that can make a d or b pony run cir4cles around spits.............

[Anaxogoras]

i've seen a couple of people that can make a d or b pony run cir4cles around spits.............

Only because the Spit pilots they were fighting didn't have a clue.

[BnZs]

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of the History channel.  Plane usage is much too stable for that argument to be valid.

Maybe the "hyping this month" thing was glib but you cannot overestimate the effect the American culture has on the thing's usage. There is no other reasonable explanation for the P-51's popularity vs. planes that are similar in capacity.

 The P-51D is a very, very capable fighter, despite its short comings.  It has high speed, coupled with great handling at high speed, something that very few aircraft have in AH.

Except for the 190, Corsair, Jug, Hellcat, SpitXVI...all handle well in a dive.  Keep in mind that "handling" at speeds beyond 400mph IAS is pretty much wasted in ACM anyway, as you will be going way too fast to track well for shot against any kind of credible guns defense. When I fly the 38, the speed limitation is no great loss at low alts.  I myself would be hesitant to call a plane with such a pedestrian roll rate, poor turn, and iffy departure "great handling" in any case.  I've flown the Pony and its competition a good deal, and there is just absolutely no advantage to the Pony I can see that would keep a P-51 "ace" from switching to something else and being just as, if not more effective.

Thanks for the info on the books.

[CAP1]

i STILL have no clue what eny is intended to do. none. nada. zilch. zippo.


what i DO know, is that it has only affected me once or twice.

[texastc316]

It will affct you if you fly LW more

[CAP1]

It will affct you if you fly LW more

in the 38J?

[BnZs]

i STILL have no clue what eny is intended to do. none. nada. zilch. zippo.


what i DO know, is that it has only affected me once or twice.

ENY does two things:

1. It purportedly handicaps the high numbers side by keeping them out of the more "uber" rides. I say purportedly because we've still got some bizarre miscarriages in the system such as the one being discussed.

2. It also decides how many points X is given for shooting down Y. Once again, many potentially idiotic situations are still possible with the ENY system as it is now, such as a P-51D pilot getting fewer points for winning a fight with an La7 than the pilot of the latter aircraft would get for winning.

Looking at the two actual purposes of ENY, it is clear why fighter capability *must* be the standard, not popularity or the like.

[CAP1]

ENY does two things:

1. It purportedly handicaps the high numbers side by keeping them out of the more "uber" rides. I say purportedly because we've still got some bizarre miscarriages in the system such as the one being discussed.

2. It also decides how many points X is given for shooting down Y. Once again, many potentially idiotic situations are still possible with the ENY system as it is now, such as a P-51D pilot getting fewer points for winning a fight with an La7 than the pilot of the latter aircraft would get for winning.

Looking at the two actual purposes of ENY, it is clear why fighter capability *must* be the standard, not popularity or the like.

that helps some.....but i thought the la7 and d pony were fairly evenly matched?

 i do know someone was talking on 200 in mw a few weeks ago, about some "quirk" in the system, allowing free jets.

 next i knew, there were jets and tyffies all over the place.

 someone else mentioned that if a d pony was running circles around a spit, then the spit driver didn't have a clue........i'm pretty sure there's some that can do it even with experienced spit drivers.

mayhaps a trainer that knows better could chime in here please?

<<S>>

[TheRapier]

I'm going to make the statement which admittedly is hard to prove but I think is truthful.

The two predominant styles of play in the LW arena are furballing (primarily focused on air to air kills) and territory capture (capture fields, etc.).

Side switchers are primarily furballers looking for easy kills. They are not invested in the territorial game (think about it! why would anyone work hard to take bases to switch sides?) So they actually play the game of temporarily playing off the two other countries to rack up their own personal scores. They generally gather around any concentration of combatants, which will be mostly people earnestly working on taking a base, upping in the perked or low ENY planes going against high ENY planes, giving themselves every advantage. So I don't know that they do anyone a favor except themselves. 

This seems to defeat the purpose of the ground game which necessarily is based on concentration of force at the right weak points. These weak points will disappear if they are mobbed by a bunch of score hounds.

So again, I'm having a hard time seeing how easy side switching is good .

[Crash Orange]

Maybe the "hyping this month" thing was glib but you cannot overestimate the effect the American culture has on the thing's usage. There is no other reasonable explanation for the P-51's popularity vs. planes that are similar in capacity. 

[snip]

I've flown the Pony and its competition a good deal, and there is just absolutely no advantage to the Pony I can see that would keep a P-51 "ace" from switching to something else and being just as, if not more effective.

Just a thought, but do you think perhaps the perspective you're missing is that of the large numbers of players who haven't flown the Pony or anything else a great deal? The relative effectiveness of two planes in the hands of an expert isn't the same as the relative effectiveness of the same two planes in the hands of a newbie, or even a pilot of moderate experience who is unfamiliar with that particular plane.

Also, I think range and carrying capacity are more important than you seem to be allowing for. What is happening in that respect is that as ENY rises, you are given a choice: carry lots of ords a long way to pork bases and suffer a penalty in dogfighting, or take a plane that can fight better but forget the porking, or at least do less of it. That might explain why the F4U-1D now has a lower ENY than the 1A model when the latter is, in the game at least, equal or superior in every respect except ord loadout.

I definitely agree with you about the "popularity" aspect of ENY working at cross purposes to its stated purposes. I like some of these changes but the system still isn't doing what it's supposed to do very well.

[1Boner]

No.

I know that 75% of the planes in the LW arenas aren't Punkstangs.

It just appears that way.

Its merely an illusion.

But doesn't the 51 count for the most kills AND the most killed in?

By alot?

[BnZs]

Just a thought, but do you think perhaps the perspective you're missing is that of the large numbers of players who haven't flown the Pony or anything else a great deal? The relative effectiveness of two planes in the hands of an expert isn't the same as the relative effectiveness of the same two planes in the hands of a newbie, or even a pilot of moderate experience who is unfamiliar with that particular plane.

Nah, P-51 is a terrible plane for noobs. Doesn't turn well, not forgiving, doesn't have a cannon, does the run like hell thing but is not the fastest and it takes time to accelerate up to top speed. You can pick practically any ENY 10 or lower plane out of your hat and it will be easier for a nooby.

or take a plane that can fight better but forget the porking,

Good man That would make for a better game.