Author Topic: Updated ENY values for Planes  (Read 6842 times)

Offline boomerlu

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #270 on: October 07, 2009, 03:28:06 PM »
yea well until you post your data and it's source there is no point in discussing reality with you and your video game speculation ...
Dude, are you guys discussing real life performance or in game performance?

If it's in game - you could easily just load up the damn P51D and FW190 and compare the weights using the E6B. All the data is quite clear that within the game, the P51D will out turn all variants of the FW190.

If it's real life performance, you can find the weight easily Googled.

P51D (from The Great Book of Fighters)
Empty weight: 7,635 lb
Loaded weight: 9,200 lb

FW190A8
Empty weight: 7,060 lb
Gross weight: 9,735 lb
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/fockwulf/fw-190a8.htm

A3
Empty Weight: 6,393 lb
Gross Weight: 8,770 lb
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/fockwulf/fw-190a3.htm

Thor - where are your numbers from? You give the data but no citation... bad form when trying to run a critical debate.
boomerlu
JG11

Air Power rests at the apex of the first triad of victory, for it combines mobility, flexibility, and initiative.

Offline thorsim

  • Parolee
  • Restricted
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
      • The Luftwhiner Lounge
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #271 on: October 07, 2009, 03:40:39 PM »
the graphical data or more correctly the data with the graphics, was from this bbs ...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/

which is pretty particular about their data, however i also referenced green "famous fighters"
and another source on line and none of the data agreed with each other which is why i suggested we went with empty weights which eliminates some subjectivity ...

however that is not acceptable and since HTC does not share their sources i suggested we end the discussion.

+S+

t

Dude, are you guys discussing real life performance or in game performance?

If it's in game - you could easily just load up the damn P51D and FW190 and compare the weights using the E6B. All the data is quite clear that within the game, the P51D will out turn all variants of the FW190.

If it's real life performance, you can find the weight easily Googled.

P51D (from The Great Book of Fighters)
Empty weight: 7,635 lb
Loaded weight: 9,200 lb

FW190A8
Empty weight: 7,060 lb
Gross weight: 9,735 lb
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/fockwulf/fw-190a8.htm

A3
Empty Weight: 6,393 lb
Gross Weight: 8,770 lb
http://www.aero-web.org/specs/fockwulf/fw-190a3.htm

Thor - where are your numbers from? You give the data but no citation... bad form when trying to run a critical debate.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 04:16:01 PM by thorsim »
THOR C.O. II ~JG-27~ Afrika-AH
Axis Co-Op
Quote from: any number of idiots here
blah blah Blah
Quote from: oldman
Good call.  Ignore the people who actually flew the real planes against each other.

Offline Wagger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 824
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #272 on: October 07, 2009, 04:24:19 PM »
What you are looking for Thor I believe was in the preceeding reply of mine.

The lack of any discernible difference between the resulting flight performance using the two aircraft finishes surprised the engineers. It was concluded that the actual design and construction, especially the external smoothness could not be improved upon, and the design was especially aerodynamically “clean.”16

Offline thorsim

  • Parolee
  • Restricted
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
      • The Luftwhiner Lounge
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #273 on: October 07, 2009, 04:41:10 PM »
yea but laminar flow in the pony (as i understand it) was sort of like the elliptical wing in the spit in that although clearly having it's advantages they also never achieved the design projections for one reason or another and therefore never really lived up to the expectations of the designer. 

i am pretty sure this is true for the spit because of the twist that was added to the wing for handling purposes it never really produced the efficiency that the pure elliptical wing would have, it also rolled poorly hence the later clipped wings. 

in the ponies case true laminar flow was supposed to achieve great things, but even though the pony was very slick, from what i understand not achieving true laminar flow left it under achieving in some areas.

now i am not positive about this and i am posting for clarification so don't get all twisted up as the above are more questions or requests for clarification than statements prepared to be defended as fact. 

i.e. these are things i have heard or read can't really remember where and was wondering if anyone had the
real story.

+S+

t   
THOR C.O. II ~JG-27~ Afrika-AH
Axis Co-Op
Quote from: any number of idiots here
blah blah Blah
Quote from: oldman
Good call.  Ignore the people who actually flew the real planes against each other.

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #274 on: October 07, 2009, 11:36:31 PM »
No... laminar flow was considered by even the experts to be difficult to achieve in reality because it was believed that laminar flow would only happen on a wing that remained in pristine condition. In the war as it turned out they were mistaken at least partially. The P-51D at its cruise altitude and speed probably did not have any tail deflection (as designed to achieve the utmost aerodynamic efficiency) and therefore with the design of the wing it also had the lowest induced drag of any plane of the time even when laminar flow was not perfectly achieved. All of the wind tunnel testing of the design indicated that the filling and painting and polishing on the wing needed to be maintained to keep the laminar flow undisturbed but in reality what happened proved that theory in error. The British discovered this early on when ground crews working on the wings had marred the finish and scuffed the underlying surface and in order to cover up the mistake they turned to a thick gloss coat of paint which in no way disturbed the aircraft performance. The early Mustang Is that the British used in Tac/R were maintained in the crudest of conditions in some cases and yet maintained their performance edge.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Updated ENY values for Planes
« Reply #275 on: October 07, 2009, 11:40:42 PM »
I have read that Nakajima designed the Ki-84's wing to use laminar flow.  I wonder if they were at all successful in actually doing so?
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-