Gunther Rall has passed

[Angus]

YOU mentioned earlier, that you were putting together audio from your meeting. will you be posting that sir?


and now a question for all........

take yourself back to that time period. put yourself in his shoes. can you honestly say you would have done anything differently than he did?

I will be making a text file of our conversation and will be happy to post some clips of it.
Putting myself in his shoes, I do not think I would have done different. Probably just poorer And here to something completely new to you, - you won't find this anywhere online so easily I guess.
I met him and spent a day with him in 2001. He was very eager to tell me his story, and that was quite a bit just the two of us. He did venture into the meetings with Hitler and was very clear about it. He said that most were quite "taken" with Hitler in the beginning, him being no different from the rest. But when the war got more complex and gritty, it dawned onhim that this was all nonsense. Going to receive a medal from Hitler, he was disgusted (exact word) to see how far away the front seemed to be from the command, and how they lived like fat pigs in their own world. (closely correctly worded). He had the brass to ask Hitler when he thought when the war was over, and when Hitler went complicated about the issue, he confronted him with the statement of "some years back you said that this war was about to be over, but now it looks as it is never going to end".
That is more brass than most of you have.....

[CAP1]

Interesting game.  When did Rall finally figure out that Hitler was a schmuck?  Was Rall still flying combat when he finally figured it out, or was it well after Germany had surrendered when it, of course, made sense to plead no contest?  Remember some German officers tried to assassinate Hitler in July, 1944.  The average officer just performing his duty must have had some inkling that Germany was headed for catastrophe.  Where was Rall when that happened?  Seriously?

Again, I do not think poorly of Rall (Im more of a Steinhoff guy), and of course, I admire his skill and accomplishments as a ace figter pilot, But I also believe he was an aggressor in a war of great human global suffering and the military machine that he was an active member of was the primary catalyst for all that suffering.   Again, no salute from me.

\
20 years ago, my opion was that if they fought for the nazis, they were (insert expletive here)

now that i';m an old guy.....sorta......i look at them as humans,.at least the pilots, and the infantrymen on the fronts.

 even when they did realize that hitler was a loon, i think they felt that it was still go up and fight, or suffer at their comrades hands a fate that would be worse than anything they could or would encounter in the performance of their duties.
 
 the thing we all are forgetting, is that we all have the benefit of hindsight. the question i asked is nearly impossible to answer honestly, as the majority of us aren't capable of doing what i said in that question. that's not a bad thing. my question was only intended to make us try to do that.
 

 like i said before, we lost my great uncle, john hunsinger in europe. he was a medic in the infantry. he was killed trying to bring injured soldiers to safety.

 i can no longer hold any animosity towards those that took his life though, as he died honorably, performing his duty. i'm sure the soldier that fired the round that killed him, also died, and also honorably performing his duty.
 those guys were all just kids back then, and had the weight of the world on their shoulders.

 this is just my opinion.....

[CAP1]

I will be making a text file of our conversation and will be happy to post some clips of it.
Putting myself in his shoes, I do not think I would have done different. Probably just poorer And here to something completely new to you, - you won't find this anywhere online so easily I guess.
I met him and spent a day with him in 2001. He was very eager to tell me his story, and that was quite a bit just the two of us. He did venture into the meetings with Hitler and was very clear about it. He said that most were quite "taken" with Hitler in the beginning, him being no different from the rest. But when the war got more complex and gritty, it dawned onhim that this was all nonsense. Going to receive a medal from Hitler, he was disgusted (exact word) to see how far away the front seemed to be from the command, and how they lived like fat pigs in their own world. (closely correctly worded). He had the brass to ask Hitler when he thought when the war was over, and when Hitler went complicated about the issue, he confronted him with the statement of "some years back you said that this war was about to be over, but now it looks as it is never going to end".
That is more brass than most of you have.....

he probably took more risk of his life asking those questions, than he ever did in the air.......and you're right.......personally, i'd never have had the cajones to ask those questions.

[Masherbrum]

YOU mentioned earlier, that you were putting together audio from your meeting. will you be posting that sir?


and now a question for all........

take yourself back to that time period. put yourself in his shoes. can you honestly say you would have done anything differently than he did?

I'd be shocked if Angus posted ANY of that, after the way this thread has deteriorated. 

[Anodizer]

\
20 years ago, my opion was that if they fought for the nazis, they were (insert expletive here)

now that i';m an old guy.....sorta......i look at them as humans,.at least the pilots, and the infantrymen on the fronts.

 even when they did realize that hitler was a loon, i think they felt that it was still go up and fight, or suffer at their comrades hands a fate that would be worse than anything they could or would encounter in the performance of their duties.
 
 the thing we all are forgetting, is that we all have the benefit of hindsight. the question i asked is nearly impossible to answer honestly, as the majority of us aren't capable of doing what i said in that question. that's not a bad thing. my question was only intended to make us try to do that.
 

 like i said before, we lost my great uncle, john hunsinger in europe. he was a medic in the infantry. he was killed trying to bring injured soldiers to safety.

 i can no longer hold any animosity towards those that took his life though, as he died honorably, performing his duty. i'm sure the soldier that fired the round that killed him, also died, and also honorably performing his duty.
 those guys were all just kids back then, and had the weight of the world on their shoulders.

 this is just my opinion.....

I share this point of view...

[BigPlay]

You might consider factoring in Hitler just a bit, if you wouldn't mind.  Thanks.
[/quote






Why...... They were civilians. Were they suppose to just leave because of Hitler. You have to remember that it was Hitler that brought work and self respect back to the German populace early inhis political carear. I seriously doubt that many if any common citizen knew what Her Hitler was up to and by the time they did it was too late to leave. Please factor a little thought in your comments before throwing every German under the Hitler bus.

[BigPlay]

yes

Stanford Tuck and Adolf Galland were good friends after the war.

Britain is still the best country in the world.

Good then stay there please and spread the love there.

[BigPlay]

When you play the game AcesHigh, does it feel "real" to you? Are you in all actuallity an ACE WW2 fighter pilot?  Uber skillz?  Too many killz to count?

Just curious.

 I don't play the game anymore, haven't in about 6 months. I do know many ACE"S from  WW2 personally. Bud Anderson, Bob Goebel, Ben Drew, Bud Peterson (when alive) Jimmy Brooks, Art Fiedler, Herky Green (when he was alive), Dick Rossi ( when he was alive) Fred Loach and others I haven't seen in a while. Many have sold there books under my banner at various air shows. I knew Rall from symposiums, but know  Walter Schuck well and a few less notable German pilots so if your intention is that I am without knowledge about such things as pilots from both sides getting shot in their chutes then your mistaken. I have heard many stories about just that from both German and American and both frowned on it to a point of having the pilot in question busted or transferred.

[KgB]

I will be making a text file of our conversation and will be happy to post some clips of it.
Putting myself in his shoes, I do not think I would have done different. Probably just poorer And here to something completely new to you, - you won't find this anywhere online so easily I guess.
I met him and spent a day with him in 2001. He was very eager to tell me his story, and that was quite a bit just the two of us. He did venture into the meetings with Hitler and was very clear about it. He said that most were quite "taken" with Hitler in the beginning, him being no different from the rest. But when the war got more complex and gritty, it dawned onhim that this was all nonsense. Going to receive a medal from Hitler, he was disgusted (exact word) to see how far away the front seemed to be from the command, and how they lived like fat pigs in their own world. (closely correctly worded). He had the brass to ask Hitler when he thought when the war was over, and when Hitler went complicated about the issue, he confronted him with the statement of "some years back you said that this war was about to be over, but now it looks as it is never going to end".
That is more brass than most of you have.....

Aww how touching. Nazi's actually lied to him!  Condeming Jews and Russian to total annihilation because they less than human didn't ring a bell at all, as soon as he realised they loosing war he feels betraid.  Had they won WW2 Adolf would've been his flippin hero.

[CAP1]

Aww how touching. Nazi's actually lied to him!  Condeming Jews and Russian to total annihilation because they less than human didn't ring a bell at all, as soon as he realised they loosing war he feels betraid.  Had they won WW2 Adolf would've been his flippin hero.

was there a possibility that front line fighter pilots didn't know about what was going on "back home"?

[BigPlay]

See Rule #4

[KgB]

was there a possibility that front line fighter pilots didn't know about what was going on "back home"?

Like what, mysteriously disappearing Jews since Hitler took over?

[Die Hard]

You're right. I'm sure they could have googled it.

[CAP1]

Like what, mysteriously disappearing Jews since Hitler took over?

same as i said before.

it's 1942. you're a front line fighter pilot.

you have virtually no way of knowing what's going on at home.

your job is to go fly your aluminum death trap and stop the enemy. that's it. it's a fight just to live to the next day.

[KgB]

You're right. I'm sure they could have googled it.

Google what "Jews not human at all part" Preached by Adolf?