Turn rate hierarchy correlation from actual flight tests

[Anaxogoras]

Those are mostly good questions, but the stall limiter question is a little insulting, so I'll ignore it.

All times were averaged over 3 trials, fuel burn was set to .00001.  Turns were conducted at <100' asl, over the water.  My procedure was to enter a sustained turn over the water do about 3 or 4 complete circles, or even more, in order to attain a sustained airspeed before starting the stopwatch at a point on the compass.  I would do this test with different flap positions to find the optimal setting, and then conduct more tests with that setting to come up with an average.

In other words, I had already considered most of the variables that you are pointing out.  As for different fuel % for aircraft with the largest gas tanks, that was an attempt to correct for a variable, not create one.

The specific version of AH I don't recall, but would be from within the last 9 months.

[thorsim]

i did not quote the specifics of that thread only his general feelings about the games,
which was the part i believed to be pertinent to this discussion.
  
we discussed both games over pizza btw, you should note that he is still in WB.  

as far as the differences between the FMs we will just have to disagree there, the transition has been pretty effortless for me.

as far as both games go i still play both, they do not seem very different to me in most regards and certainly not in the specific aspects of my issues with them both.  my opinions and gums about what specific problems are very similar, if you read the thread he alludes to many of the same issues i am speaking of, although from a bomber pilots perspective.  

Yes, they are different. I have plenty of experience with both.  I flew warbirds from '98-'04, plenty of s3's under my belt too.  In fact if you read the post you cherry picked from, Gums laments the fact that warbirds lost its fm designers before hotseat. I wonder who those guys were?  

You truly are something else, I've wasted enough time here.

[Bronk]

i did not quote the specifics of that thread only his general feelings about the game,
which was the part i believed to be pertinent to this discussion.
  

Fixed ... get it correct you disingenuous luftwhiner.

[TequilaChaser]

was not trying to insult or criticize, Anax.........( I was recollecting on a player that used the stall limiter, thinking it would help him remain constant)

sorry you took it as insulting

I just trying to figure out your testing procedures...... it could be the Zscore which is might cause people to be thrown off a bit.......

as for what version or patch..it is not a "big" requirement, but it does help if your test were performed before/after certian AirCraft may have been adjusted, although you already knew what I meant when I suggested that......

from your reply, it looks as though you understand how to go about testing, all I can suggest is staying with the same percentage of fuel load, for it is my belief this may be skewing your results a little bit .......

my thoughts anyhows, and I appreciate anyone who takes the tedious time it calls for to go through and gather such data.....  

[thorsim]

i'm pretty sure i have referred to both games throughout my postings in here.

Fixed ... get it correct you disingenuous luftwhiner.

[Anaxogoras]

was not trying to insult or criticize, Anax.........( I was recollecting on a player that used the stall limiter, thinking it would help him remain constant)

sorry you took it as insulting

I just trying to figure out your testing procedures...... it could be the Zscore which is might cause people to be thrown off a bit.......

as for what version or patch..it is not a "big" requirement, but it does help if your test were performed before/after certian AirCraft may have been adjusted, although you already knew what I meant when I suggested that......

from your reply, it looks as though you understand how to go about testing, all I can suggest is staying with the same percentage of fuel load, for it is my belief this may be skewing your results a little bit .......

my thoughts anyhows, and I appreciate anyone who takes the tedious time it calls for to go through and gather such data.....  

You know, now that some of you have pointed it out, I'm not so happy with the difference between the J and L.  They should be closer (about a 3.5% difference right now).  I'll chalk it up to a small sample size, but even now I find I get the L around just a tiny bit faster, judging by my stopwatch 5 minutes ago.
 

[Bronk]

i'm pretty sure i have referred to both games throughout my postings in here.

You use your pal's quotes about another game to compare with AH.

Yup you are a disingenuous luftwhiner.  You should be lumped in with the likes of kurfurst/barbi.

[WMLute]

i'm pretty sure i have referred to both games throughout my postings in here.

I think thorism needs to duel WideWing.  (edit: or Badboy or heck, any of the trainers)



I then think WW (or whomever) needs to post the film of said duel here so we can all kick ourselves for wasting so much time arguing with someone that only has a basic grasp on how to fly and fight in AH and has no business commenting on a FM they do not understand in the first place.

[Bronk]

I think thorism needs to duel WideWing.  (edit: or Badboy or heck, any of the trainers)



I then think WW (or whomever) needs to post the film of said duel here so we can all kick ourselves for wasting so much time arguing with someone that only has a basic grasp on how to fly and fight in AH and has no business commenting on a FM they do not understand in the first place.

Why, wouldn't last 1 turn past the merge.

[WMLute]

Why, wouldn't last 1 turn past the merge.

My point exactly.

[Brooke]

from a guy i know who just happens to have been a viper tester, after 400 or so combat missions in Southeast Asia ...

Oh, jeez.  Thanks, Blshar, for pointing out that the quote from the guy he knows is about a totally different sim and thus not at all applicable to Aces High.

Posting that as if it were about Aces High was a disingenuous ploy.  I'm always glad to see such things flagged for what they are.

[thorsim]

for the record i did not attribute the post to anyone because they are not involved in this discussion,
not because i was trying to mislead anyone about the opinions of the poster, which i do not think i have.  

i have shown you what i believed to be the same courtesy when i have quoted you in discussions in which you are not active.

specifically this one ...

In our game, to really succeed in some knock-down scissors fights you have to be prepared to drop full flaps and raise them up again in a number of seconds.

would you i prefer i do things differently in your case?

had anyone inquired i would have more throughly explained the origins of the quote.  

i just try not to involve people in discussions where they do not involve themselves.

sorry for the confusion.

+S+

t
 
p.s. i BCC mail as well ...

I was wondering where that quote came from.

[Bronk]

for the record i did not attribute the post to anyone because they are not involved in this discussion,
not because i was trying to mislead anyone about the opinions of the poster, which i do not think i have.   

i have shown you what i believed to be the same courtesy when i have quoted you in discussions in which you are not active.

specifically this one ...

would you i prefer i do things differently in your case?

had anyone inquired i would have more throughly explained the origins of the quote. 

i just try not to involve people in discussions where they do not involve themselves.

sorry for the confusion.

+S+

t
 

BS you were hoping to sneak it through otherwise you'd have said so first. You've been caught and are now peddling hard to CYA.

Begone

[thorsim]

no i do the same thing for the reasons i posted ...

as do others ...

And another reason why I do not take you seriously,thor.



The real numbers, notice the p51's turn rate slows with flaps down? But the rate stays the same on the 2 German planes? Yet you claim they are some how fantasy ?

(Image removed from quote.)

So your claims about bias are accurately backwards. But then you have never pulled any hard numbers or done any real testing to see what the numbers really are, you just wish to say things are incorect.

So I again ask, in a 15 deg dive at 400 mph with dive flaps extended at 25k, what should the acceleration/deceleration be in a p38? You claim they are incorrect in our game, so please tell me what you think it should be.

HiTech

quoted image ^^^ sorry if i am over stepping bounds to make a point about over stepping bounds.

although i wouldn't present something as my own that was not ...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,275682.75.html

i apologize if that is not cricket here.

BS you were hoping to sneak it through otherwise you'd have said so first. You've been caught and are now peddling hard to CYA.

Begone

edit sorry the pertinent thread ...

http://agw.bombs-away.net/showthread.php?t=88480&page=9

sorry if some of you are too new to this to enjoy ...

+S+

t

[Brooke]

for the record i did not attribute the post to anyone because they are not involved in this discussion,
not because i was trying to mislead anyone about the opinions of the poster, which i do not think i have.

Oh, please.

Imagine if we were talking about the accuracy of Aces High's flight-dynamics model.  And you say, "I know an expert who says the flight model sucks."  It's true that you know an expert.  It's true that the expert thinks the flight model sucks.  But it turns out the flight model he was talking about was for the 1990 version of the game Red Baron -- a fact that you leave out.

Oh, wait.  That's pretty much what you did.  That is misleading and underhanded, and you got called on it.