Author Topic: What the?!... a sick joke?  (Read 1543 times)

funked

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2000, 08:42:00 AM »
PS Aircat you are a good sport, sorry if I insulted you.

Offline RAM

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2000, 08:42:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Wingnut_0:
Quote
Originally posted by Zigrat:
UFO A5
QUOTE]

Want a real UFO?  I dove down on a B17, I believe it was over 16 the other day.  One of his engines was smoking and I was determined to not let him go.  

I came in from a high offset H2H position and after passing by I zoomed up and over to repeat.  When making my second run, this guy started pulling up, so I thought..kewl, maybe I'll get to kill one of these things finally..hehe.  Well he pulled and pulled and my G6 started stalling.  This character actually LOOPED in a B17...wounded at that.  I was so amazed that he ended up shooting me down and I left the arena highly agitated.  

Wingnut


Wingnut can you please say the name of the character...

I have my own ideas about who can be.

now, LOOPING B17s...that for sure is a joke.


Offline Trell

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2000, 09:20:00 AM »
wow
i have not been able to loop a b17 yet.

b26s and goons are easy if you have enough speed.    and you dont rip the wings off..


trell

[This message has been edited by Trell (edited 08-20-2000).]

Offline Wingnut_0

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2000, 10:13:00 AM »
Sry Ram I can't remember his name.  I'd probably recognize his nic if I saw him again.  I wish I had the film rolling at that time.  


Offline jmccaul

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2000, 11:18:00 AM »
Flying the spitfire written by someone who has flown it. (novel eh)
=============================================
Text ©1995 Jeff Ethell
The symbol of Britain's refusal to give up during that dark summer of 1940, the Spitfire won the hearts of both pilots and public in World War II. Regardless of the version, with either Rolls-Royce Merlin or Griffon power, all Spitfire cockpits are virtually identical and wonderfully compact. Climbing in really is (to use a very worn turn of phrase) like pulling the machine on. If everything is done correctly, the Spitfire is one of the easiest aircraft to start. The engine usually fires within two blades and runs like a clock.

While the Merlin-engine versions run very smoothly, the larger Griffon-engine machines feel as if they are angry. The sound from the exhaust stacks and the vibration transferred to the seat of the pants communicates visceral power, almost a desire to go kill something. Any hot-rod lover would enjoy this sensation of unbridled horsepower, this impatience to be turned loose and hunt. Every fighter I've been in is great fun to fly but only a very few are brutally straight about why they exist. The Griffon Spitfire is one such machine.

With enough warmth in the coolant and oil, a flip of the parking brake catch releases the brake lever on the spade control grip and the aircraft is taxiing with minimal power. The first time I had the opportunity to fly a British aircraft with this hand operated air brake system I was skeptical about it being very effective compared to hydraulic toe brakes. Within a very few minutes I was completely won over. It is far easier to manage, particularly on run up when one has to really stand on most American fighter rudder pedals. The source of high-pressure air is controlled by the brake lever on the spade control grip, or stick. The rudder pedals modulate the distribution of pressure to the left and right main wheel brakes. If the pedals are even, equal braking is applied to both sides; as one rudder pedal is applied then more brake pressure is fed to that side. Strength of application is delivered by the hand lever on the grip. The major benefit to all this is having one's feet and legs almost completely relaxed most of the time.

Lining up for take-off is intimidating with that Rolls-Royce engine sticking way out in front. There is no sense in thinking too much about it. Throttle up slowly to prevent a lurch to the right (if in a Griffon Spit where the propeller turns the opposite direction from American aircraft)...left foot moves forward almost in concert with the left hand to keep the nose straight. Monster torque shoves the right wing down rapidly, very much like the P-40, until full left aileron and full (give or take a minuscule amount) left rudder is held. The Rolls is a wounded dragon bellowing horrendously.

There is so much raw power and noise, and you are so tightly focused on keeping everything under control, the actual lift-off at around 90 kts goes by almost unnoticed. Switch hands, move the gear lever down to disengage it from the slot, inwards through the gate and then smartly all the way forward, hold momentarily, then let go. If all is well, the lever snaps outwards through the upper gate, then springs back into the upper slot. Its easy to spot a new Spitfire pilot...the aircraft porpoises as the pilot changes hands and works the gear lever.

Sitting behind this demon V-12 churning out so much power is intoxicating...the earth falls away at a rapid rate, at least for something with a propeller. A look around reveals the excellent visibility out of the bubble canopy. This lessens, to a degree, the impression of being buried within a Spitfire, though that feeling of being a part of the machine does not change. The elevator is very light while the rudder is stiff and the ailerons even more so. Every Spitfire I've flown takes a bit more muscle to roll than most fighters. As speed increases both rudder and ailerons get heavier, resulting in a curious mismatch at high speed...one has to handle the almost oversensitive elevators with a light fingertip touch while arm-wrestling the stiff ailerons. Pilots had to keep this in mind during combat, particularly when going against the Fw 190 which had a sterling rate of roll and exceptionally well harmonized controls. That being said, the aircraft is very well balanced and delightful to maneuver. Whipping a Spit around the clouds ranks right up there at the top of aviation's great experiences.

The aircraft stalls like a Piper Cub. Though a wing tends to drop, there isn't the slightest mean streak in it unless you cob the power, which produces a very violent torque roll. Power off, gear and flaps down, main fuel tanks full, it stalls at 65 kts, which is ridiculously slow. Add a slight bit of power and that drops to 60 kts. With that enormous snout, I try to make a curving approach to landing at about 100 kts in order to keep the runway in sight as long as possible. By the time I'm rolling out across the field boundary, if at max landing weight, I should be no faster than 85 kts with power and 95 kts in a glide. At lighter weights these speeds can be reduced by 5 kts.

All Spitfires are exceptionally easy to land with no inherent tendency to swerve or groundloop. Just reduce power to idle, flare to a three point attitude and she sets down on a feather almost every time. This is a great surprise to most considering the narrow track undercarriage and full swivel, non-locking tailwheel. Why doesn't it drop a wing violently or make the pilot stomp on the rudders? I wish I knew. The genius of managing to combine light aircraft characteristics with such high performance is nothing short of miraculous compared to most other wartime tailwheel types. One or two landings in the Spitfire and you are in love for life.
=============================================

As for UFO energy retension i believe it is one of those things that should just fall out the model so if there is a problem with the spits e-retension it will either be a flaw with the model which will effect all planes or HTC have used the wrong numbers (lickly ?) .

Why then is the spit e-retension so much higher. To take an uneducated guess I think probably 3 factors :-

1) Elliptical wings - it reatins E well.

2) Wingloading - Generally it takes less time under g (i.e. bleeding energy) to manouver to the same position. i.e. it may take a FW 190 a few seconds longer to do a 180 degree turn bleeding energy for a few seconds longer.

3) Powerloading - means good acceleration at low speeds so can get lost e back quickly (through accelerating or climbing). I suppose the excess power and low stall speed means can get over those low speed loops other planes perhaps can't do as well.    


Offline Jigster

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2000, 11:58:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
Wingnut can you please say the name of the character...

I have my own ideas about who can be.

now, LOOPING B17s...that for sure is a joke.


Take a very strong pilot and copilot, ensure there will be no consequences by their superiors for putting a B-17 through such a harsh manuver, load it with only a quarter of fuel and oil, with no internal load. And I guarntee you that a B-17 would do it with no problem  

And another thing...50 gallons of oil per engine sure does leak fast  

- Jig


[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 08-20-2000).]

Offline RAM

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2000, 01:17:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jigster:
 Take a very strong pilot and copilot, ensure there will be no consequences by their superiors for putting a B-17 through such a harsh manuver, load it with only a quarter of fuel and oil, with no internal load. And I guarntee you that a B-17 would do it with no problem    


In this game the B17 loops, and if a gunner is on board with the pilot , it can fire his turbolasers at the same time.

Yeah I guess that the gunners didndt mind to be upside down wile firing.  

And excuse me but I doubt a lot that B17s could loop in real life, at least not without major structural damage, you'd better be FAST when you start the loop or you wont do it. And the pull would do massive damage to its wings.

Offline minus

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2000, 02:36:00 PM »
?????????
1) Elliptical wings - it reatins E well.

what a hell is that JEDI energy ????????????
crap how can retain Kinetic energy  ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? huh wing fuselage and all the aircraft body isit aerodinamic break nothing alse  
punt
 lift of is not KE
punt

Offline minus

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2000, 02:38:00 PM »
 and maybe the Big lift and  smal load eat KE even beter ! ,spit haz nice big wings  ya or not ? :-)

Offline minus

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2000, 02:41:00 PM »
Sory but geting MAD , and why a hell spit been incapable to w0rk out in last month of the WW2 ?  SPeed  !!!!!just spit get realy slow  when your teory work spit fly ontil today and 900 km/h ?:-))))))))))))

Offline minus

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2000, 02:48:00 PM »
forgive my boys but last thing about the nice wing of spit :-))
wings what work well at low speed work bad at high speed  ! and vice versa
be hapy spit can turn  that all  :-))

Offline jmccaul

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2000, 02:51:00 PM »
I believe elliptical wings retain E well due to them giving good lift for the minimum of (induced ?) drag (at high AOA ?)

P.S. orginallly that should have retains

funked

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2000, 03:21:00 PM »
Wells went through the calcuations on this a long time ago.  The elliptical planform and aspect ratio make the Spit a special plane.  No amount of griping can change the laws of physics.    

However there is going to be some new physics in AH soon, so who knows.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-20-2000).]

Offline Karnak

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2000, 03:34:00 PM »
To all Spit bashers:

Complete a Tour exclusively flying the Spitfre MkIX.  After you've done that and had your K/D ratio magically trippled (or even remain were it is {no cheating by changing your flying style to be an insanely conservative "I only engage if I have 5,000ft and only 1 target type", unless you already fly that way}) then I'll listen to your whines.

I'm sick of this "Spitfires couldn't do that.  Everybody knows Spitfires sucked and were just mediocre jack-of-all-trades aircraft."

Put your money where your mouth is.  I did.  I did a whole tour (Tour 6) where I flew German aircraft, mostly the G-10 (OK, I cheated a flew a couple of Tiffies), to find out for myself how bad off you guys were against the Spitfire.

You know what I found?

I found that YOU"RE ALL A BUNCH OF WHINERS.  
The Bf109G-10 was SO MUCH EASIER to get kills in and survive in that I have to regard all of your anti-Spit statements as a freaking joke.

Every so often now, I'll grab a Spit, thinking that maybe I was just getting better.  But no, I still suck, and I still get wasted by some high flying BnZ bird that I am helpless against.

Sisu
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Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline minus

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What the?!... a sick joke?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2000, 03:59:00 PM »
geting kill and survive is it not mean at all to have FUN!!! and geting Big score is not fun at all

IS it DAMN boring !!!!!!!

the fun is when u get adrenalin up and that come when  Typhie manage outurn a ZEKE :-))))))))