Surviving the MA lonewolf

[SIK1]

Well there's 10 minutes of reading time I won't get back

Fly however the heck you want to fly.  Understand the key point here.  There is absolutely no risk in this game outside of dying from a heart attack from lack of circulation due to sitting at the computer too long or getting shot by your significant other who is tired of looking at the side of your head for days on end.

Steve, you and I have run into each other many a time in the MA.  More often then not, you are above me in your 51D as you like it, and me below you in my 38G as I like it.  The challenge for me is to try and counter and defeat your advantage.  Sometimes I do, more often then not, I don't.  It's what is fun to me.

I look a the title of this thread.  'surviving the MA lonewolf".  Not once in all these years of cartoon flying have I not survived.  In itself the title is misleading.  As always it's one guy's opinion on the way to 'fly' in the arenas.  Then we get the Dicta Boelcke bit etc.  Folks start confusing real life air combat with cartoon land combat.  If that's how you choose to fly it, so be it, but to preach it as 'the way" is silly. 

I understand where Shuff is coming from.  These days I get very little time for cartoon combat in my 38G of my doom.  When I do fly, I don't care to climb high.  I just get myself a few K and wander towards the fight.  I know someone will oblige me

And in thinking about it, the guys up high make a living off guys like me, and I don't mean the bad guys.  I would bet that if you totaled up over the years the number of my deaths, to the number of deaths of the 6 guys shooting at me at the time I died in the crowd, the ratio would be off the charts in terms of their deaths.  You guys up high need me drawing cons for ya so you can shoot em

In the end there is no losing in AH for me, as long as I'm having fun, and thankfully when I do get to fly, that tends to be the case.

+1

[Steve]

Well there's 10 minutes of reading time I won't get back

Fly however the heck you want to fly.  Understand the key point here.  There is absolutely no risk in this game outside of dying from a heart attack from lack of circulation due to sitting at the computer too long or getting shot by your significant other who is tired of looking at the side of your head for days on end.

Steve, you and I have run into each other many a time in the MA.  More often then not, you are above me in your 51D as you like it, and me below you in my 38G as I like it.  The challenge for me is to try and counter and defeat your advantage.  Sometimes I do, more often then not, I don't.  It's what is fun to me.

I understand where Shuff is coming from.  These days I get very little time for cartoon combat in my 38G of my doom.  When I do fly, I don't care to climb high.  I just get myself a few K and wander towards the fight.  I know someone will oblige me

And in thinking about it, the guys up high make a living off guys like me, and I don't mean the bad guys.  I would bet that if you totaled up over the years the number of my deaths, to the number of deaths of the 6 guys shooting at me at the time I died in the crowd, the ratio would be off the charts in terms of their deaths.  You guys up high need me drawing cons for ya so you can shoot em

In the end there is no losing in AH for me, as long as I'm having fun, and thankfully when I do get to fly, that tends to be the case.

What a great big crock of poo.  Hmm where do I start.

I look a the title of this thread.  'surviving the MA lonewolf".  Not once in all these years of cartoon flying have I not survived.  In itself the title is misleading.  As always it's one guy's opinion on the way to 'fly' in the arenas.  Then we get the Dicta Boelcke bit etc.  Folks start confusing real life air combat with cartoon land combat.  If that's how you choose to fly it, so be it, but to preach it as 'the way" is silly. 

Nobody preached anything. Some people gave a couple of pointers on their idea of how to get in some fights and maybe make it home when you are alone against numbers. That's it.

Steve, you and I have run into each other many a time in the MA.  More often then not, you are above me in your 51D as you like it, and me below you in my 38G as I like it.  The challenge for me is to try and counter and defeat your advantage. 

About the only way I could get lower than you would be to taxi. I don't fly high, relative to the MA. I typically arrive on site, even against the horde,  at around 6-10k.  Usually 8k.  When I'm higher than you I have E and a faster plane,  you have a plane that is better in the vert, turns better, climbs better, and is more lethal.  I don't hold all the cards by any means.

I understand where Shuff is coming from too: If you don't fly in circles, you won't learn SA, or improve in the game. LMAO

[Soulyss]

Probably going to regret sticking my nose in this thread but here goes anyway...

Unless I am reading Shuf's posts wrong I think he was merely advocating the practice makes perfect, flying in a manner that the OP advocates is certainly improves your chances of surviving in the MA, but if you are a newer player then it also pays to get down and dirty once in awhile and explore the other methods.  In the end it will make the player a more rounded, competent cartoon fighter pilot.  One isn't any "better" than the other but if someone stays fast and strictly BnZ-ing then they may be hard pressed to handle situations when the tables are turned which can happen in the MA.  Conversely if all a new player is doing is upping a Hurricane, Zero, etc. and the idea is to merge then hold the stick back and fly in circles are also the types that I think are more likely to fall victim to ropes and other maneuvers that the E-fighting planes frequently use because they haven't worked on them.  It's all part of the learning process.   

The OP had good advice, keeping those things in mind will certainly help someone who's stuck flying alone in the MA's.  I am also assuming that he's addressing newer players with the post because I think that most people who have been at this awhile have picked up on a lot of those lessons already.  Drawing from my own experience when I started AH I flew the P-51 exclusively and I got to a certain point where I was decent in it, then I let Mathman talk me into flying the F6F and it opened up a whole new part of the game for me.  In the end I was a better cartoon fighter pilot because I could take the lessons I learned BnZ-ing in the 51 and combine them with the lessons I learned flying the F6F where I suddenly couldn't count on the things that I used to be able to in the 51.

One way is no better than the other, but I think a player should try both.  Who knows what they think is fun may change, but you never know if you don't try. 

Please keep in mind that I'm using extremes examples, I think most players probably already mix the two different schools of thought.

[Shuffler]

You think sitting up there takes a lot of SA? Looking down and watching the planes fight.  OK, that is your point of view and you like flying that way.

Some day how about coming down in the fight and trying it out a bit. See how different your SA has to be tracking multiple targets/cons all turning with you. I guarantee if you do... you'll find flying up there much easier tracking tagets all lower than you.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just that your SA down low has to multi-task quite a bit more.


Out in the ballfield..... having 6 balls come at you that you have to catch. Once you do that.... catching one ball will seem like a piece of cake.

The pony turns very well. There are planes that will out turn it but it is not all about turns. There are many planes that out turn a 38 too. We don't just go round and round on the deck. If that is all we did we would be shot down most every time.

[Lazerr]

  When I'm higher than you I have E and a faster plane,  you have a plane that is better in the vert, turns better, climbs better, and is more lethal.  I don't hold all the cards by any means.

turns better under 250mph maybe.. climbs better? Never.  More lethal?  Not more than a 400mph pony..

I agree with the way you fly Steve, i just do it in a different plane.  I do like living to land, and giving a group of 5-10 more planes fighting me solo the fast way back to the tower.  Flying into a hoarde at 4k is just frustrating.  If everyone would fight you, and not extend through for the next pick.. then.. maybe.

There is a time and place for the 100mph stall buzzing fight, unfortunately, less than more.

[Steve]

You think sitting up there takes a lot of SA? Looking down and watching the planes fight.  OK, that is your point of view and you like flying that way.

Some day how about coming down in the fight and trying it out a bit. See how different your SA has to be tracking multiple targets/cons all turning with you. I guarantee if you do... you'll find flying up there much easier tracking tagets all lower than you.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just that your SA down low has to multi-task quite a bit more.


Out in the ballfield..... having 6 balls come at you that you have to catch. Once you do that.... catching one ball will seem like a piece of cake.

The pony turns very well. There are plane that will out turn it but it is not all about turns. There are many planes that out turn a 38 too. We don't just go round and round on the deck. If that is all we did we would be shot down most every time.

Who said anything about staying "up there"? I advocated flying  at 6-10k... uhh that's actually pretty low for MA purposes and I never said anything about staying up there.  And I'm talking about flying alone against many opponents while keeping an eye out for more incoming planes and an eye for egress.  How would that not  require a lot of SA.  Go ahead, explain that to me.

The pony does not turn very well.  That's a flat out lie. It turns better than the 190's.. and that is pretty much it. That said, I turn fight my pony just about every night I play, even against your superior turning 38.(yep, I lose a few    )

If you want to have a discussion, comment on what I've typed, not BS that you invent.

[Steve]

Probably going to regret sticking my nose in this thread but here goes anyway...

The OP had good advice, keeping those things in mind will certainly help someone who's stuck flying alone in the MA's.  

As far as I'm concerned that's all we are talking about. I couldn't find anywhere that said this is the only way to fly and you shouldn't try other things.

Lazer, the J and L out climb the pony.... always, not never.

And lethality was strictly applied to gun packages. The 38 is somewhat more lethal.

[Lazerr]

Was using the poster child for suck, p38g for those comments.

I know my laterwar models are better than yours.

[Steve]

Was using the poster child for suck, p38g for those comments.

I know my laterwar models are better than yours.

Ahh I understand... I was kind of lumping them together.    


You're going to hurt Gupp's feelings with that poster child talk.   lol

[Lazerr]

He kinda has to know it is inferior by now.. 

[Soulyss]

As far as I'm concerned that's all we are talking about. I couldn't find anywhere that said this is the only way to fly and you shouldn't try other things.

Nor I, it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise.  I just know from my own personal experience that sometimes a player can get locked into one part of the game and that ultimately you (generic "you") can short change yourself by not exploring other parts of it.  I used to obsess over "living", landing as many sorties as possible getting a high K/D that was what I thought was fun, and as I stated in Nimble's other thread about style of play I still try to land, but I also discovered that I had fun by going into fights outnumbered, in an inferior plane and having to work my butt off to come out the victor.  It doesn't happen often but when it does it feels damned good.  That's what I find fun now, and I'm having more fun now than how I used to play. It is no more justifiable than someone who flies above the pack and plays more conservatively, but if I hadn't tried both I wouldn't know and I think that's good advice for new players as well.

[Wreked]

Further comment on Lonewolf Survival:

On-the-Deck egress : there frequently comes a time in my 190A8 when I'm out numbered - can't out turn them - spits- zekes - can't out climb them - 109's - can't out accelerate them - P51's/47's -  when cornered low and slow in my 190A8 I'll fly LOW - 10'-50' - looking UP at the trees - you'll know when you are there - the ground which looks so smoothly toned will take on a "gravel" look to it - I've found MANY can't handle  flying so low without frequently climbing up to 400-500 or so - thereby loosing ground on me and with time allowing me to escape to reset. I make a point of flying  around objects - below them - if the enemy wants to follow they usually fly over it - loosing ground - AND lots of times they auger!!!

Something else I've found - if you can keep (through E management) a superior plane on your 6 back at least 800 or so - they frequently loose patience after 30 - 50 seconds of pursuit - <shrug> break off -even tho they could have in a minute or 2 easily caught me - too many of them are of the NOW generation  hehehhe

just a few suggestions

....cheers eh!

[Guppy35]

He kinda has to know it is inferior by now.. 

Are you saying I can blame the plane and not myself?

[Lazerr]

Are you saying I can blame the plane and not myself?

Well.. I dont think I want to fight you flying a SpitVIII... 

[Shuffler]

Who said anything about staying "up there"? I advocated flying  at 6-10k... uhh that's actually pretty low for MA purposes and I never said anything about staying up there.  And I'm talking about flying alone against many opponents while keeping an eye out for more incoming planes and an eye for egress.  How would that not  require a lot of SA.  Go ahead, explain that to me.

The pony does not turn very well.  That's a flat out lie. It turns better than the 190's.. and that is pretty much it. That said, I turn fight my pony just about every night I play, even against your superior turning 38.(yep, I lose a few    )

If you want to have a discussion, comment on what I've typed, not BS that you invent.

Hey get off my back.... I have a PHD in BS  


Flying at 6 to 10k "is" considered low in MAs. I agree. It is just considered high to some of us.

I personally just prefer fighting a group of red guys low and enjoying the limping flight back to land knowing I accomplished something.

As for the pony turning.... on the rare occassion when I fly one in the DA it turns very well. Again that is just a difference in our type of flying.