Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[Motherland]

you say 3/4 of a million miles like it is significant. it is nothing in the grand scheme.

Neither is 2000 years

on top of that, there is still no conclusive proof that the planet is warming.

Yet you've said several times in this thread that the planet is warming, just that it was a natural cycle not man made? Even just today...

...
 also, read the above in bold, then search back through my posts....you'll see that i said pretty much what that article confirms.

 we had global warming for awhile. we had global cooling before that. we have global cooling now. we'll have global warming again.

 it is cyclic. our climate is powered by the sun, the earths rotation, and the earths orbit.

 our climate is not controlled by us.

 seriously? how DARE any of us think that we are powerful enough to overcome mother earth?
...

... yeah it's probably pretty inappropriate for me to come into the thread and cherry pick random posts and then leave

[CAP1]

Neither is 2000 years

good point....i let that one slip right by me.

[CAP1]

Neither is 2000 years
Yet you've said several times in this thread that the planet is warming, just that it was a natural cycle not man made? Even just today...




... yeah it's probably pretty inappropriate for me to come into the thread and cherry pick random posts and then leave

no, it's not inappropriate dude.......it adds to the discussion, and fun.

actually, what i should have said, was that there is no conclusive proof that the planet is doing anything out of the ordinary.
 the way i typed that earlier, could be easily misinterpreted, as there will be times that the planet warms, and times it cools.......but as mentioned earlier, that is affected by a number of things. it just so happens that mankind is not one of those things.

[Motherland]

no, it's not inappropriate dude.......it adds to the discussion, and fun.

I'm not really adding to the discussion, I'm just making occasional random interjections & leaving (as I'd rather not get into this but I just can't help myself sometimes ). I hate when people do that

actually, what i should have said, was that there is no conclusive proof that the planet is doing anything out of the ordinary.
 the way i typed that earlier, could be easily misinterpreted, as there will be times that the planet warms, and times it cools.......but as mentioned earlier, that is affected by a number of things. it just so happens that mankind is not one of those things.

I see what you mean

[CAP1]

I'm not really adding to the discussion, I'm just making occasional random interjections & leaving (as I'd rather not get into this but I just can't help myself sometimes ). I hate when people do that
I see what you mean

yes, but ya see? you did add something. you corrected something i mis-stated, and thus i clarified it.

and yea.....i know whatcha mean about gettin dragged in. 

[MORAY37]

you say 3/4 of a million miles like it is significant. it is nothing in the grand scheme. 3/4 of a million.......750,000, right? compared to 93 million?

It is incredibly significant. From winter to summer in the northern hemisphere, when comparing sunlight in January to July, there is only a 6% difference.

A six percent difference in the amount of sunlight reaching the planet's surface is the difference between winter and summer.  So now you're saying around a 1% difference in distance isn't going to change the amount of solar radiation reaching us?  A .1% increase or decrease in sunlight reaching the planet corresponds to a .24 Celsius change in the mean global temp.

700,000 miles becomes significant, because that amount of distance reduces the size of the earth's face when collecting incoming radiation, from a set point in space.  There should have been a steady cooling as can be ascertained from the previous 2,000 years history, and orbital mechanics. We can tell the sun hasn't changed in intensity for at least those 2,000 years, as well.
  
Instead we've seen warming, even you don't deny it.  Not many people understand just how fragile a ribbon this planet of life exists on, and somehow can't fathom how man can change the whole game.  Astronomy has measured that the "habitable zone" for life (and life doesn't mean "us" btw) in this solar system compromises a mere .2% of the available area of the solar system. 99.8% uninhabitable. Basically, a ribbon 100,000,000 miles wide, from about 80,000,000 miles to 170,000,000 miles from the sun.

[Bodhi]

It is incredibly significant. From winter to summer in the northern hemisphere, when comparing sunlight in January to July, there is only a 6% difference.

A six percent difference in the amount of sunlight reaching the planet's surface is the difference between winter and summer.  So now you're saying around a 1% difference in distance isn't going to change the amount of solar radiation reaching us?  A .1% increase or decrease in sunlight reaching the planet corresponds to a .24 Celsius change in the mean global temp.

700,000 miles becomes significant, because that amount of distance reduces the size of the earth's face when collecting incoming radiation, from a set point in space.  There should have been a steady cooling as can be ascertained from the previous 2,000 years history, and orbital mechanics. We can tell the sun hasn't changed in intensity for at least those 2,000 years, as well.
  
Instead we've seen warming, even you don't deny it.  Not many people understand just how fragile a ribbon this planet of life exists on, and somehow can't fathom how man can change the whole game.

6% difference?  LOL a generalization like that is about the same as lying like the CRUdid about surface temperatures.

Sheesh man, I though scientists were supposed to seek the truth....

[MORAY37]

6% difference?  LOL a generalization like that is about the same as lying like the CRUdid about surface temperatures.

Sheesh man, I though scientists were supposed to seek the truth....

Considering that 6% is easily measured.... that's a pretty sad rebuttal.

[Bodhi]

Fancy graph trying to explain a bunch of BS of 6% difference in daylight between summer and winter.

Daylight began where I live on July 1 of 09 at 5:38AM and set at 8:30PM

Daylight began where I live today, January 14 of 10 at 7:18AM and set at 5:01PM

That is a difference of over 5 hours of daylight.  Almost 15 hours of daylight versus shy of 10 hours of daylight is a far cry bigger than 6%.  Where I went to school that's pretty close to a 33% difference.

You're a crappy scientist bucko.

[Anaxogoras]

Shouldn't that be measured in photons, and not hours between sunrise and sunset?  6% seems like a possible value that I wouldn't discard out of hand.  We're talking about an entire hemisphere, not our own backyards.

[batch]

first Id like to know the source for the suns distance being 3/4M miles further than it was 2000 years ago.......... I must admit thats not in my knowledge nor can I find any source..... not saying its incorrect..... I just couldnt verify it..... but assuming youre correct:

theres not a 6% difference in "sunlight" reaching the earth from Jan-July........... theres a 6% difference in solar radiation...... 2 distinclty different things

the earth is approx 3 million miles further from the sun at the winter solstice (shortest daylight periods) than it is the summer solstice (longest daylight periods) ......... which is why theres a difference in radiation at all............ but this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with winter or summer as you suggested...... 

in fact the earth is actually warmer when its at its furthest point in its orbit from the sun.... which has everything to do with the seasons.....

your conclusions might be true if the earths axis were perpindicular to the sun....... and the earth was in a perfect circular orbit with the sun at the center ......but since it sits at an angle and theres a 3M mile difference in its orbit........ then not so much

when the earth is at its furthest point from the sun the northern hemisphere is tilted toward it......... which is why we have summer then....... when its at its closest the northern hemisphere is tilted away which is why we have winter.......... seasons have nothing to do with distance

[Anaxogoras]

theres not a 6% difference in "sunlight" reaching the earth from Jan-July........... theres a 6% difference in solar radiation...... 2 distinclty different things

Sunlight is solar radiation in the same way that heat is molecular motion.

[CAP1]

i've noticed,  that in some instances, people try to get exact, saying using averages doesn't work.....such as in using the past recorded temps.
 then those same people average things out, such as the amount of solar energy, sunlight, distances, etc.

 the point, and fact is that the weather systems are pretty much in a pattern. they always have been, and always will be. they are affected by the sun, earths rotation, orbit, etc. they are still not affected by man kind.

 at least not now. if this crap keeps up, some govt. will listen to one of these loons, and we'll have em launching rockets with mirrors, and prisms, trying to deflect light from the earth. or putting blankets on the antartic ice to prevent its melting. or sending automated ships to cruise the seas, spewing mist above them to again block sunlight.

 THEN we might have a problem caused by man kind.

[Angus]

Cap1:
"the point, and fact is that the weather systems are pretty much in a pattern. they always have been, and always will be. they are affected by the sun, earths rotation, orbit, etc. they are still not affected by man kind."

So you belive that issues like what the atmosphere consists of, what the surface consists of and what amount of organic (speak forest) manipulation is about, none of this could possibly affect climate?
Mankind, you see, is a new factor.

[leitwolf]

Seasons are not created due to the difference in earth's distance to the sun on its eliptical path. They are mainly caused by the earth's tilt w/respect to its axis of rotation (the equator).