PBY Catalina

[vUSMCv]

Im sure alot of us want it, but It would be a fun plane and should be used at ports and cv's if we get a model. For ports to have them is have the vh up even though its a plane. for carrier fleets have the cv up like every other plane. Im sure this isnt the best idea but it would be a fun plane to have.

[Templar]

+1 for the idea. There are other current threads that touch on this matter though (ie. Search and rescue / amphibious aircraft and water landings etc. etc.). You might do a search and review some of the information and discussion posted in the relevant threads. 

[Ack-Ack]

As long as beer bottles are part of the ordnance package for the Catalina, I'm all for it.


ack-ack

[bravoa8]

+1 I like it! HTC will need to add a better water model though.

[Ghosth]

110 mph but 17 hour endurance, YEAH!

Even with MA 2x fuel burn it means you could fly for over 8 hours before having to land.

[gyrene81]

At last, a target for the I16.

[Treize69]

Been trying to talk them into the PBY for scenario and arena rescues and fleet hunting for years.

+ like 1,000

[waystin2]

+1

[saantana]

Yes, but first redo the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV7gpRhy4Eo

In fact this brings on another idea. Sea diving.

Has anyone watched the movie Pearl Harbor? In this movie, Ben Affleck being the super ace pilot that he is, gets messed up by a gerry over the channel, and while looking at a picture of his girlfriend stuck onto the instrument panel of his spitfire (See my related thread: Personalized Cockpits http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280151.0.html ) he goes into the water. However, being an adept swimmer, he manages to climb out of his cockpit and swim up to the surface, saving his own life in the process. All because of that one picture on his cockpit panel, which gave him strength in the moment he needed it most..

Upon entering the water, we should be able to simulate swimming by moving the joystick around. There should be an indicator of how much strength/air we have left (See tomb raider from the 90's) and upon surfacing, an icon should appear above our soldier indicating that we are now there, not unlike the 'Parachute' icon we have when a pilot bails out of a plane and opens his parachute.

And then, after all this, we should get water planes.

+1

[vUSMCv]

what would be really cool is they change the water. and if you get shot down bail out, if you get saved with in 20 min maybe you get your points. but the enemy may also come and capture you and no points.

[Rich46yo]

It will end up the biggest hangar Queen in the game. Nobody is going to float along at 100 mph for hours on end. Nobody is going to float in the water for 45 mins waiting for this plane to float by to pick them up. Not that anyone is going to spend 2 hours picking up a little cartoon flyer anyway.

PBYs were excellent in their roles as ASW, Convoy escort, or night time strike against undefended convoys. Add to that picking up downed pilots. It was the right aircraft at the right time in History and I dont blame anyone here for admiring it. But in this game I think it would be as useless as nipples on the herd Bull. Most of all in light of the fact we have plane sets still in need of combat aircraft. We dont have night, dont have convoys, and I doubt anyone is going to float in 2D water for an hour on the off chance their buddy in the PBY survives long enough to pick him up. AND make it back.

I admire the PBY too. Just not for Aces High. I'd much rather see the TU-2 modeled, or the Beau, of the Jap set fleshed out more.

Boy I wouldnt want to be floating into a furball at 100 mph in one of these. They are a cool airplane tho.

[Saxman]

Scenarios.

[Ack-Ack]

PBYs were excellent in their roles as ASW, Convoy escort, or night time strike against undefended convoys.

If you're going to post like you're some kind of expert on a subject, it would really help if you actually knew a thing or two about what you're talking about.  Night time strikes against undefended targets?  Learn about the Blackcats and look at the missions they ran, one can hardly say their primary targets were undefended convoys.  Heck, regular PBY units would have been very lucky if they spotted undefended convoys that they were able to attack.

The PBY would be a great addition for scenarios, FSOs and even the AvA arena.  The AH world doesn't revolve around the Late War arenas and there are more to World War II planes than the Late War rides you're accustomed to flying.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Nice little story of the PBY during the Battle of the Bismark Sea.

BISMARK  SEA  ACTION
Just after midnight on November 25, Hal Sommer, skipper of VPB-52, was prowling an area about 75 miles west of the enemy complex at Rabaul when his radar operator picked up a large force of several ships on his equipment. A few minutes later the wakes of several fast-moving vessels came into view. Sommer picked out one and executed a glide-bombing attack. The entire bomb load was released at about 700 feet and all missed the target. The intended victim, a destroyer, opened up with tracers and fire from its main batteries. Sommer opened to a distance of about 25 miles and proceeded to track the enemy formation. He radioed his position and the situation to Lieutenant Bill Lahodney, who was also searching the Bismarck Sea that night.

Lahodney arrived at the position a short time later and homed in on radar. At about two miles and 1,200 feet, he could make out a large zigzagging wake. It belonged to a cruiser flanked by several destroyers. He pushed the nose of the aircraft over and began a steep dive toward the violently maneuvering target (believed to have been the heavy cruiser Aoba or another ship of that class).

The attack on the big ship was made from port quarter to starboard bow and although the intervalometer was set to provide bomb spacing of 75 feet, it is probable that the weapons hit closer together, due to the steep angle of the dive and the low altitude of the drop. The copilot, Ensign H. M. "Hank" Kalstad, released the quick of bombs on Lahodney’s signal and the pullout was made between 100 and 150 feet. They found their marks on the writhing target. The starboard waist gunner looked out to see the large superstructure, masts, and the after turret of a big cruiser flash by. The Cat made a climbing turn and came back for a strafing run despite a withering antiaircraft barrage. As the plane approached its wounded victim, there was a violent explosion from the bowels of the big warship. Lahodney continued the run, dropping a duster of fragmentation bombs from about 400 feet. As he did so, heavy antiaircraft fire enveloped the Catalina, blew off the tunnel hatch, and ripped through the tail section. Lahodney was suddenly aware that he had lost all aileron and partial elevator control and was losing altitude. Adding full power on one engine and somewhat less on the other, he was able to pick up a faltering wing and thus keep the aircraft in the air. Other enemy ships in the formation now picked up the PBY in their searchlights and were making frantic efforts to shoot it down.

Retiring out of range, the wounded Cat slowly climbed to 6,000 feet, still experiencing severe problems with directional control and maneuvering. Lahodney and his co-pilot wrestled with the problem for some time when, suddenly, dozens of searchlights came on and flashes of light could be seen on the ground below. Only then did they realize that they had strayed over the Japanese stronghold at Rabaul. Luck was with them again, however, and a broken layer of clouds covered their escape. They headed east, passed over the southern end of New Ireland and proceeded out to sea. There they altered course to the southwest and headed for home.

The aircraft was still flying but it was not performing normally. Differential throttle had to be employed on the engines to retain control. Excessive power was necessary to maintain altitude and even so, maximum speed was only about 90 knots. Lahodney ordered all excess gear jettisoned – guns, ammunition, tool boxes, catwalks – everything, as Kalstad later remarked, "that was not riveted to the plane itself."

About 50 miles south of New Ireland they ran into a front with heavy turbulence. With no aileron control, and the elevator cables hanging by a few strands, they were buffeted about for almost two hours before they emerged on the other side.

The problem now was one of navigation, for they had only a vague idea of the aircraft’s position. Finally at daybreak they were able to raise the Half Moon on the radio and discovered that they had passed to the west of the tender and were off the southern coast of New Guinea. Reversing course they returned to the coastline and followed it eastward until they came upon the base at Samarai about two hours later. There, they made a deliberately hot landing to prevent the tunnel compartment from taking on too much water, and taxied right up to the ramp. There the aircraft sank in shallow water. It had been an eventful night and Lahodney later received the Navy Cross for his skill and daring.

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Another account of a Blackcat attack on a Japanese convoy.

INTERCEPTING  A  CONVOY
On the afternoon of January 15, information reached Samarai that a large enemy convoy from Truk had entered the Bismarck Sea and was headed toward Rabaul. Land-based Army bombers could not make an attack on the convoy before dark. If action was delayed until daylight the next day, however, the formation would have reached the cover of a large front extending along the entire southwest coast of New Ireland. Under cover of weather, the enemy ships would reach Rabaul and unload their cargo, which by this time was sorely needed by the Japanese defenders. It was up to the Black Cats to make the interception.

Tom Christopher and his officers poured over the charts. If the intelligence information was accurate, they should be able to make contact with the enemy at about 0130 off New Hanover Island, just west of the northern end of New Ireland. Six planes, all that could be spared, were readied. Four of these planes were loaded with the customary two 500- and two 1,000-pound bombs. The other two each carried two 500-pounders and one Mark XIII torpedo.

Takeoff time was at 1800 and the six planes headed north. Crossing over into the Bismarck Sea in darkness, they immediately spread out in a loose scouting line to find the enemy convoy. The weather was unusually good that night, with scattered cumulus clouds at about 1,200 feet and a quarter moon providing just the right amount of light.

Tom Christopher made first contact with the enemy at 0108 northwest of New Hanover proceeding on a course of 150 degrees at a speed of 10 knots. As he approached the formation, he could make out four large cargo vessels and two cruisers. About eight miles to the west he could see a second group of ships, consisting of two smaller merchant types and some escort vessels. Having heard the Catalina’s approach, the Japanese knew they had been discovered and prepared for the worst. Tom Christopher orbited nearby and called in his other aircraft in order to make a concentrated attack. The enemy, he noted, seemed to have a bad case of nerves. "The cruisers seemed to have great difficulty in keeping the merchantmen in position, and they were milling around in circles, and got all spread out. The other convoy came over and joined them, and the cruisers were just dashing back and forth in among this mess of ships trying to give them adequate coverage."

By about 0230, three of the other PBYs had arrived on the scene. The remaining two aircraft were delayed by distance and weather, and the attack was begun without them. Ellis Fisher moved in first and made a torpedo run on the lead cruiser coming in from the ship’s starboard side. Because torpedo attacks are best made from a beam aspect, the target has an opportunity to bring to bear all its guns on one side on the attacking aircraft. And this is exactly what happened in this case, with the second cruiser also pumping out rounds to augment the firepower of the first. Fisher bore on. Positioning himself at about 100 feet off the water at 105 knots, he waited for the right moment and squeezed of the drop. Nothing happened.

Fisher moved out of range and circled around to try again. This time even the merchantmen and another small escort vessel were firing at him but he continued on, getting even closer to the target before he attempted manual release. Again, the torpedo hung up in its mounts. By this time, the cruisers had the picture. The Cat was after them. They appeared to forget about their slow-moving charges in the convoy and concentrated their efforts on saving themselves. Again, the Cat dove, levelled off at 100 feet and zeroed in on one of the big warships. For the third time, the obstinate weapon refused to drop. A serious oil leak had now developed in the starboard engine. Reluctantly, Ellis Fisher and his crew departed the area and headed for home.

But the fun was just beginning. S. B. Bradley who had been orbiting about six miles from the formation, now made his move. Climbing to 3,500 feet, he moved in close, using a broken layer of cloudsto mask his approach. When he was almost on top of the enemy ships, he nosed over in an unusually steep dive of perhaps 70 degrees. As he broke through the clouds, he found himself about a mile from a fat tanker which he immediately chose as his target. Flattening his dive angle to about 50 degrees, he came in fast (for a PBY), indicating about 200 knots. Antiaircraft fire was now intense but Bradley concentrated on his chosen victim as the Cat plummeted toward the water. At 150 feet, he pulled out and pressed the intervalometer bomb-release switch for a stick of four. The mechanism failed to function. Fortunately, the copilot pulled the starboard emergency-release handle at the same time, releasing one 500- and one 1,000-pound bomb from under the starboard wing. Both were direct hits amidships. Bradley maneuvered violently to escape the antiaircraft fire which enveloped him and retired to safe distance where he observed his handiwork with some satisfaction.

Tom Christopher later described the sight. The ship was a large tanker loaded with gasoline. When Bradley’s bombs found their marks "she went up into a beautiful torch. In the light of that the other planes picked out their targets...."

Next to try his luck was Lieutenant (j.g.) Loring M. Bates, Jr. He moved in on a freighter approaching from the starboard side at an altitude of 500 feet. When he was only a few hundred yards from the target, he pushed over into a dive and let all four bombs go in a stick at 125 feet. There were no hits and the Cat made its escape at a low altitude, skimming a few feet off the water.

At about this time, Vad Utgoff came upon the scene and, in the light of the fire from the burning tanker, he began a torpedo run toward a group of ships which included one of the cruisers. The enemy could hear the Cat coming but apparently thought it was another bombing attack and concentrated his gunfire skyward.

Utgoff slipped in underneath and launched his fish. It was a perfect textbook run, 125 feet, 105 knots at drop point. Distance was about one-half mile with plenty of running time for the weapon to arm. The torpedo left the aircraft on cue – but there was no explosion and the enemy ships steamed on. Utgoff still had two bombs left and he was determined to make them count.

By this time the convoy was fast approaching a line squall which the enemy ships clearly intended to use for cover. Christopher decided to make his attack before that could happen. Moving in at 500 feet, he chose a large cargo vessel. He lined up his approach from port bow to starboard quarter and when he was almost on top of the vessel, Christopher dove on the target. As the Cat bore in at close quarters, the bow gunner sprayed the deck with his twin thirties, silencing one gun on the ship’s stern. Releasing all four bombs on the intervalometer, Christopher concentrated on making good his escape. It was a good drop – right on the money, but there was no explosive flash. Suddenly, there was a blast which threw Cat crewmen into the bilges. Seconds later, a plume of water, smoke and debris rose 200 feet in the air over the stricken vessel. All fire from the target ship had now ceased but guns from the other ships in the convoy zeroed in on the fleeing aircraft. There seemed to be a wall of tracers ahead. If they could not go through that hail of bullets, perhaps they could go under it. Christopher dove for the water to make good his withdrawal.

Now it was Vad Utgoff's turn to try again. He had seen the spectacular explosion aboard Christopher’s target ship and chose another large cargo vessel nearby. Utgoff began his attack about a mile from the target, diving quickly from 1,200 to 200 feet in an attempt to get under the antiaircraft fire coming at the airplane from all directions. It was from all kinds of guns both heavy and light and it followed the aircraft in its dive. Utgoff released both 500-pounders together as he made his run from port quarter to starboard bow. One hit the ship’s side and exploded, shooting a bolt of fire outward and parallel to the water. The other appeared to have gone through the deck plates and went off. As the aircraft made a circling escape, fire was seen amidships and below decks in the forward part of the ship.

It was a beautiful sight. Three large vessels whose cargoes would never reach the Japanese garrison at Rabaul were burning brightly below. With weapons expended, the four remaining planes headed for Samarai and a good day’s sleep. At 1045 the next morning, an Army reconnaissance aircraft arrived at the scene of the battle to survey the damage. There they found one of the ships in its final stages of agony and watched it go under. The other two were burning, and belching smoke and debris from periodic explosions from within. Soon they too would be claimed by the sea. There was no sign of life except for a few empty lifeboats and the flotsam and jetsam of battle. The Black Cats had done their job well.

ack-ack