Ready...Aim...FLAME!

[MadHatter]

<---- Pats himself down lookin for smoke

Cool, thought I would have to audition for the part of the Human Torch in the next Fantastic 4 movie.   Thank you guys for not pulling out the gasoline Super Soakers. MBailey thanx for the cover   Actually I do think I have run into you in the arenas, well at least my plane ran into your bullets. You'll know which one is mine, it's the only Spit with those floaties on the wings and training wheels. I'm glad most like the idea of the PBY, feels good to get some support. As for the nightfall, well if it' been tried, and pilots tried to make it work, and it didn't, nuff said. Scratch that idea. As for the 29, like I said, it's a wishlist, I don't care if I'm only allowed to fly it with 1 100 lb bomb and a rubber ducky in the bay, still wanna fly it, just so i can go   out the tail gun at the pilot tryin to chase me down. Oh and  Soulyss, I have had the pleasure to wing up with you ( I was the guy flapping his arms to try to get the Spit to go faster) I think the reason I like this game is for the fact that I do get frustrated with the fighters. More of a sense of accomplishment when I get something down. (I annoyed the hell out of my wife when i actually managed to land for the first time. I swear the words "That's nice Dear." must be genetic or sumthin) Either way thanx for the feedback, I have more ideas but I figured I'd test the waters first.  

[Vadjan-Sama]

Was the old night just in a single arena?  Night could be limited to just one area (Blue or Orange) so those who didn't want to fly in it could choose the other.  If you didn't want to fly at night, don't go to that arena.

+1 on that, I really miss the night, we got amazing fights in nightime and that can work: 1 Late arena with some night time 

[thndregg]

5: Concussion Shake. This is going to sound stupid to many, but if I'm flying in flak and a burst goes off near me, let the plane get jolted a bit. Again, more of a challenge to bombing strats. Like the Doctor said, "The worse it gets, the more I love it!"

An exuberant "YES!!!!" on this one. If this can be coded, PLEASE do!

[gyrene81]

Just testing it out...just cleaned it. 


Though well worded (much unlike some of the other "iwannab29superduperuberfortre ss" posts)...no or at least not yet. You may not realize it, but there are at least 6 other bombers (Russian, German, Japanese, Italian) that could be put into the existing lineup before the B-29 gets dropped in on us.

PBY, ok cute little vulnerable hangar queen.

Night...wouldn't matter to me. I can adapt.

I don't think we're going to get an increase in trains or road convoys...if you want something on the ground to shoot at...just look on the ground near a heavy base fight, plenty of tanks and flak.

Buffeting from aerial flak bursts could be very interesting. Would have to be coded according to caliber and distance...would be cool if ords dropped near gv's would do the same thing.

[Spikes]

while leaving the B-29 to sit with the AR-234 in the hangar.

Ar234 in the hanger? Not mine! I barely let my engines cool down

[The Fugitive]

1: PBY-5A Catalina. This is one of my favorite planes in the WWII era. Don't ask me why, I don't know. After doing some research, I think I have a way to incorporate it into the game. A PBY could easily fill 2, possibly 3 roles.
                    A: Anti-shipping. In WWII there were squadrons known as the Black Cats. Designated by a flat black camo scheme and lack of markings. Generally these planes carried a compliment of 2x500 lb bombs / torps and the main goal was to disrupt supply shipping in the Pacific theater. "Between August 1943 and January 1944, Black Cat squadrons had sunk 112,700 tons of merchant shipping, damaged 47,000 tons, and damaged 10 Japanese warships." (Wiki) In game we could use these "Black Cats" against task forces. These planes had a range comparable to the B-17, just less armanent.
                    B: CV Resupply. Ok, Yes CV's are a pain in the rudder to deal with already, but in essence they are floating bases. If the PBY can land within 1000 meters (hell make it 200) of the cv and drop supplies, let the CV be repaired. You can add certain limitations to it. For instance make it so 12 drops are needed to repair a CV and no matter how many drops the CV will always move slower after getting lit.
                    C: SAR. (This is the possiblility) If a pilot bails over water, or has to ditch, let the PBY pick them up.  It can count as a successful bail for the pilot and a success for the PBY. If PBY can land within 200 meters, maintain position for 2 mins (or 1 min) then its a success, if the PBY can land it. Now before anyone goes crying about stats or intentional bails, think about it this way. First of all, with the amount of squeakers and tweekers playing this game, can you honestly believe that besides the initial novelty of the idea (that time when something new comes out and EVERYONE has to try it) how many pilots would be willing to run SAR operations? I would, but thats besides the point. This game has no accountability for a death/bail, at least nothing I can see. On top of that, how many pilots, once downed, would be willing to wait for a pickup? I think that some of the more mature pilots would. I know it's seems like I'm shooting holes in my own boat here, but the point is that SAR would not make that big an impact on the game, but the possibilities of it can, if it was used correctly.

SAR possibility has been brought up a bunch of times and the best answer I've seen is "Why would you wait for someone to pick you up when you can just tower out?" also, its darn near impossible to get someone to run supplies out onto the base, how about getting someone to do a 20-30 minute flight to pick you up!

The CV resupply idea is pretty neat though.

2: B-29 Superfortress. God, I swear I swear I can hear every Zippo in the community just get flipped open, hold on guys. I have done research and I have read the past posts on the issue. But, this is still a wishlist. I would like to see the 29 in the game. High altitude bombing is a blast for me. Make the 29 a perk plane, can't have formations, can only carry x amount of bombs, doesn't matter, I still want to fly the damn thing. And before anyone starts screaming about 1 plane being able to wipe a town out, I can do that anyways as it stands. 1 B-17 at 20k loaded with 50% fuel and 12x500 pounders can wipe a town out. Just ask Scooby or Swoops, hell, ask anyone in the 81st. I've done it. The 29 is not going to be that big of a change. And if people are truly that worried about one plane, then I suggest running missions to take bases and start flying patrols more often, instead of the "i'm an uber-pilot I'll attack this base on my own" mentality that seems to pervade. (squeakers, I'm lookin at you)

I think HTC said "someday" he'd think about adding it, but to me it would be a game spoiler. We do fine without it, no need to add it.

3: Actual Nightfall. Ok I see the sun go down, umm, ok Moon's coming up, why does it seem like it's still high noon up here? Ok I play the late war orange arena, but I would like to see an actual night in the game. A planes usefulness can change drastically at night (not to mention make bombing more challenging) It would be nice to see what happens.

Like stated we had it (though I think it was dark longer, 15 minutes dusk, 30 dark, 15 minutes dawn) and when it got dark people logged off in droves. A group of guys tried to get a campain going to get HT to return it and he finally say "NO, it's not coming back EVER!" because some people couldn't understand what he said any other way 

4: Merchant Shipping. We got ground convoys running alll over hell's half acre out there. I've seen where a truck convoy came to supply the ONLY base on an island (where'd it come from), lets have shipping convoys to supply the ports. Gives the bombers/divebombers more targets to play with, and let it affect the CV groups.

each CV group takes a ton of info to run. The number of cv groups allowed to a map is small due to the huge hit it causes the game trying to update positioning on all the cv groups each second and now you want to add convoys to that mix. Take 15 goons and drop troops at the same time over a base. It will take for ever to capture the base.... if it doesn't crash your computer. About the same thing.

5: Concussion Shake. This is going to sound stupid to many, but if I'm flying in flak and a burst goes off near me, let the plane get jolted a bit. Again, more of a challenge to bombing strats. Like the Doctor said, "The worse it gets, the more I love it!"

Sure it might be cool, but again it may be too much info to be relayed from server to your computer. Then there is what your gunner would see and feel, and anyone around you flying close would see the shutters. Having blood to oozed across the windscreen would be cool too, or damaged part fluttering on your wing and such. Some thing have to be given up to make the game playable. I prefer to be able to fly and fight like we do now rather than watch a slide show of a game. 

[Saxman]

Black Cat PBY missions would be a blast. I'm pretty sure Ack-Ack will be along any minute now asking for the beer bottle bombs....

However in place of SAR, set up the game so that if a PBY flies within a given distance of an enemy CV group it automatically gets plotted on the map. So long as the PBY remains in contact with the CV its position continues to update. If the PBY is shot down or withdraws the last known position and heading is identified with a time stamp for a given duration (say, an hour) after which it is removed from the map.

Also, regarding night, one issue is with the way the game actually HANDLES night. If you pump your Gamma up high enough it pretty well negates the reduction in visibility.

[MadHatter]

Just testing it out...just cleaned it. 


Though well worded (much unlike some of the other "iwannab29superduperuberfortre ss" posts)...no or at least not yet. You may not realize it, but there are at least 6 other bombers (Russian, German, Japanese, Italian) that could be put into the existing lineup before the B-29 gets dropped in on us.

PBY, ok cute little vulnerable hangar queen.

Night...wouldn't matter to me. I can adapt.

I don't think we're going to get an increase in trains or road convoys...if you want something on the ground to shoot at...just look on the ground near a heavy base fight, plenty of tanks and flak.

Buffeting from aerial flak bursts could be very interesting. Would have to be coded according to caliber and distance...would be cool if ords dropped near gv's would do the same thing.

Like the picture 

As for the 29, again it's just a wishlist. I'm sure there are plenty of bombers out there, and believe me, I would definitely try them all out. Every bomber has it's strengths and it's weaknesses. But one thing I've noticed in all the threads is that everyone takes the view of "this would happen if the other guy has them". True, but you have them too. Either way, this issue is not one that's going to make or break my decision to pay for the subscription. I enjoy the game. You bring forth a good point as do many others as to why not. Ya'll (yes I'm from Texas) have better reasons versus my "I just want to fly it". So, "the Dude abides"....for now 

As for the PBY. I think it's more of an issue of what to do with it when we have it. Resupply CV, anti-shipping operations, SAR. I found a good website http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/ that show the capabilities of the bird. Another point is that the PBY was also used to drop paratroopers. http://www.pbycat.org/chronp2.htm So here's a tatic. Mission up's to smash and grab a base. Instead of the Goon, troops are lifted in a PBY, Cat lands off the coast while the fighters and bombers and boyscouts fight it out and when the signal is given it ups and delivers troops to town. Basic setup that's used now except for the landing on the water part. The other point is the PBY is armed. It can't handle a horde, but it can defend itself at least enough so his buddies can swing a fighter as escort. So now, whoever is delivering the troops doesn't feel like the flying bullseye. And it might be easier to find a pilot willing to play Taxi, instead of playing "not it" to see who's the Goon pilot. i'm not saying get rid of the goon. Maybe make it so the PBY carries only 5 troops, that way you need at least 2. The PBY will add more dimension into the game.

Night. It sounds like it's been a case of "been there, done that, they stole my t-shirt". If it didn't work, it didn't work.

I wasn't asking for an increase in convoys. I didn't realize there actually were convoys (barges) that supplied the ports. My fault.

Glad you liked the flak idea. And actually I didn't realize it about GV's either. Good call.

 


edit: Fugitive, what you said about the SAR, I've said to myself. I figured it was going to be a hard sale on that aspect. Thats why I gave it the "possibility" aspect. But I actually like Saxman's idea a whole bunch more. Recon was a major issue in the war that I don't see in the game. Scoring can be done on a per minute basis. Something like .10 points for every 10 seconds in range, range being just outside of flak range. That way can be spotted by CAP and the PBY has survivability. I suggest the .10 but reality I suggest a low point so pilots just don't up because they're running low on bomber perks. Something where 7-10 minutes of total contact would be comparable to a successful bomber run. All that would have to be done is put an invisible radar ring around the plane, with just a big enough radius to keep the bird out of the cv's flak range.

[mbailey]

However in place of SAR, set up the game so that if a PBY flies within a given distance of an enemy CV group it automatically gets plotted on the map. So long as the PBY remains in contact with the CV its position continues to update. If the PBY is shot down or withdraws the last known position and heading is identified with a time stamp for a given duration (say, an hour) after which it is removed from the map.

 

Wow, now thats a great idea  

Hatter, after looking at gyrene81's post, i thing im gonna need a bigger extinguisher 

[MadHatter]

Let me get my fire-resistent Super Dan suit.

[mike254]

Welcome to the addiction MadHatter <S> I think you will fit in nicely judging by your posts. Hope to see you in the sky sometime.

Scoring can be done on a per minute basis. Something like .10 points for every 10 seconds in range, range being just outside of flak range. That way can be spotted by CAP and the PBY has survivability. I suggest the .10 but reality I suggest a low point so pilots just don't up because they're running low on bomber perks. Something where 7-10 minutes of total contact would be comparable to a successful bomber run. All that would have to be done is put an invisible radar ring around the plane, with just a big enough radius to keep the bird out of the cv's flak range.

Now this idea I REALLY like. 

[Ghosth]

Puts away zippo.

Ok the PBY ideas kinda balanced out the B29 stuff.
Which is a shame because I really like the idea of flying a PBY in AH.

Leaves you sorta  balanced on tightrope between heaven and hell.
And it looks like Gyrene is warming up hell for you.  Ewwww is the rope on fire?


How many bomber pilots are really going to want concussive shake if it throws their bombsight off?
And if it doesn't throw off the bombsight, whats the point?

Everything that goes into the game changes gameplay.
Most things do it in more than one way, some good, some not so good, some bad.

The trick is to figure out the most good stuff you can pack in without screwing it up for everyone else.

Nighttime, is one of those deal breakers for a lot of folks. Might not be for you or me, but for 7 out of 10 it is.

B29 is another, Yes it was used, but it is so good compared to all other bombers.
That it would have to be perked into rarity.

To use an example, ME-262 vs P51 where the 262 is so fast, that it needed a 200 point perk.

For the B29, compared to the B17, I think you'd be looking at a 1,000 point perk. Certainly 500, and another million for the nuke.  (that may or may not pop)

So no flames here son, and you have some good ideas. But I suggest you really get comfortable with what we have before asking for the sun, moon, and stars.

[Saxman]

....before asking for the sun, moon, and stars.

But we already HAVE those!

[MadHatter]

Ghosth, thanks for putting away the Zippo  

I'm glad you liked the PBY ideas. I actually like Saxman's recon idea better then the SAR. This is probably the biggest issue that I'm pushing for. I was trying to figure out a way to give a few more options to pilots, without drastically changing the game.

As for the 29, like I said, ya'll have presented better reasons as to why we shouldn't, versus why we should. Scratch the idea.

Nightfall and convoys, again, I should've done the research, didn't realize that the convoys were already there (to be honest I was trying to find another way to make the Cat useful) and night was tried and declared a failure.

The concussions, honestly, this is going to sound stupid. I guess I'm looking for that epic flight. To up in a mass formation of B-17's, fight through heavy fighters and flak, and even with the bombsite being knocked about, still managing to put the bombs on target, egress, fight my way back home and putting the bird down with half a wing missing, 2 smoking engines,no rudder, and a failed landing gear. My PopPop was a B-17 crewchief and he used to tell me stories about how bad some of his birds were when they got back. I guess it's the "you did your best, but I did better" part of me.

[Knite]

Sure it might be cool, but again it may be too much info to be relayed from server to your computer. Then there is what your gunner would see and feel, and anyone around you flying close would see the shutters. Having blood to oozed across the windscreen would be cool too, or damaged part fluttering on your wing and such. Some thing have to be given up to make the game playable. I prefer to be able to fly and fight like we do now rather than watch a slide show of a game.  

Heya Fugi =-)

Just wanted to disagree on this point, and actually give a   to the OP suggestion.

The Flak concussions do not need to be done client/server. Since the client already gets info from the server as to WHERE the flak is hitting, it (the client machine) can determine appropriate proximity, and appropriate "reaction". If the proximity was only close enough to "rattle the teeth" so to speak, then likely the pilot would be feeling (and seeing due to vibration) the chassis of the aircraft shake (this effect is already in the game with stalling and compressibility speeds), but those around him would really not see anything happen, sort of like a car hitting a bump on a highway. Sure, the tires move, but the car chassis itself does not appear to to other cars, however, the "pilot" of the car feels the vibration and does have their vision slightly "vibrated" for lack of better term. If the proximity was close enough to affect the flight path (is that possible IRL?), the commincation between the client and server can be done through nothing more than the standard aircraft orientation/handling code that already exists.

In terms of "oozing blood" (eww, I'd prefer the oil spray to "ooze") and parts fluttering ( ) those could be client side options/toggles that really would have no affect on gameplay, but a big effect on immersion. There would be no server code needed really, as it'd all be optional client side special effects.