Author Topic: Dueling vs MA fighting  (Read 36076 times)

Offline Twizzty

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2010, 01:12:59 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE

 :D

Seriously though uptown, I had the exact same issues a couple of months ago. My breakthrough was in finding someone I respected and I knew could explain things in a way I would understand. That person for me was Snaphook and I cannot thank him enough for it. It only took him about 15min to understand what I was missing and explain it in a way I completely comprehended, by the end of an hour it was already starting to come together for me. Now, win or lose, I at least have the knowedge and confidence I can put up a good fight...it's a good feeling.

It also doesn't matter what setup you use, as long as your comfortable with it.

<S> and good luck uptown
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 01:29:15 PM by Twizzty »

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2010, 01:42:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE

 :D

Seriously though uptown, I had the exact same issues a couple of months ago. My breakthrough was in finding someone I respected and I knew could explain things in a way I would understand. That person for me was Snaphook and I cannot thank him enough for it. It only took him about 15min to understand what I was missing and explain it in a way I completely comprehended, by the end of an hour it was already starting to come together for me. Now, win or lose, I at least have the knowedge and confidence I can put up a good fight...it's a good feeling.

It also doesn't matter what setup you use, as long as your comfortable with it.

<S> and good luck uptown


Snap AKA Humble has a way with the words.  :D


Your first big step was the decision to get inside a fight and get your hands dirty. Once you do that your already way ahead of many folks. From there you can improve fairly quickly.
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Offline Twizzty

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2010, 02:01:50 PM »

Snap AKA Humble has a way with the words.  :D


Your first big step was the decision to get inside a fight and get your hands dirty. Once you do that your already way ahead of many folks. From there you can improve fairly quickly.

Your absolutely right Shuffler, on both accounts!

It was our fights in the DA that sparked my interest in dueling Shuffler, I remembered that and it drove me to improve and to duel alot more.

Thanks bud <S>

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Offline BnZs

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2010, 02:33:06 PM »
Ever play outside? lol.  You just described 21.  In any case, I am trying to explain how practice could make you better.  Not comparing the two.  But hey, you do what you think is best for you and i ll do the same for me


LOL Ded, that was a joke on MA "skillz", not me disagreeing with you.

Main ace-skill in the MA is "situational awareness"...which is code for being "aware" when the "situation" gives the opposition any chance at all, and avoiding it.

EDIT: Sarcasm on.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 02:45:49 PM by BnZs »
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Offline Shane

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2010, 02:43:01 PM »

Main ace-skill in the MA is "situational awareness"...which is code for being "aware" when the "situation" gives the opposition any chance at all, and avoiding it.

turn it around and you'll be closer to the true "ace" path young tardawan.... :old:

being "aware" when the "situation" gives *you* any chance at all, and taking it.  :joystick:

what you described is commonly referred to as... "running."   :bolt:
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Offline humble

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2010, 05:00:21 PM »
glad to have helped Twizzty  :airplane: :salute

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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2010, 05:26:26 PM »


Remember, it's okay to FAIL - the cyber chicks down at the virtual bar couldn't possibly think any less of you.   :banana:

*If* my gunnery were even a tad better, I'd have been almost as awesome as Levi (except I wouldn't have been surrounded by a mini-horde saving my bacon.  :airplane:  :joystick:  :joystick:  :joystick:  :joystick:  :joystick:   :angel:  :angel:   :angel:  :angel:   :angel:  :neener:)




:rofl

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #97 on: January 08, 2010, 07:38:39 PM »
Yeah it does... but the point you're missing is, practicing 3-pointers with nobody guarding you (non-game conditions) isn't the same as doing it with the real game on the line. Yeah, it *helps* to get the reps for shooting techniques but 'the real situation' is always something else.

Dueling is so artificial that even the initial ANGLES (HO, passing close on the cold merge) are staged and unrealistic. Since your real life isn't on the line in a flight sim, well, you learn from fighting (and sometimes dying) in various situations during missions.

I think youre missing it.  While the start/setup of a 1v1 contest in the DA is "staged," that fact has zero bearing on the remainder of the engagement.  It serves only to remove "starting advantages."

Removing those "starting advantages" one would find in the MA, the pile-it is forced to manufacture an advantage, as Snaphook stated.  Its the manufacturing of that advantage that has value and is not only directly portable to the MA, but, dare I say, essential to survival if you intend to play the game in a non-hordish manner.

Anyone can drop from a 5K altitude advantage and flame a bad guy who doesnt even see it coming.

Someone who has a sound understanding of how to manufacture advantages starts to pretend that he doesnt see it coming so as not to spook the soon-to-be-de-perched.   ;)

« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 07:53:25 PM by Saurdaukar »

Offline Stiglr

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #98 on: January 08, 2010, 09:40:55 PM »
All true, but the fact of the REAL event was, pilots with their real life tulips on the line tended to insist on having those advantages as often as they could. They didn't always go diving into a furball willy-nilly all full of testosterone (not many, anyway). If they knew they had a good chance to come out alive, then they'd go. Now of course, there were exceptions to this in every air force... but these tended to either get killed, or to be good enough to become legends. Thousands upon thousands of other pilots flew more like "mere mortals"...

It is very hard to "model" fear of death in a sim... but I try to put survival as job #1, a bit ahead of "fulfilling the mission". Gamers are only interested in "blowing sh*t up" so they play by different rules, not thinking twice about a HO when prudence might suggest they work for a better shot before hosing away... and the list goes on.

Anyway, I don't mean to say dueling doesn't help at all... just that its utility is limited some by it's stilted nature.

Offline grizz441

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #99 on: January 08, 2010, 09:45:22 PM »
just that its utility is limited some by it's stilted nature.

Take it from somebody who flies the MA to survive and has also logged thousands of duels practicing ACM.  You are wrong.

Offline humble

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #100 on: January 08, 2010, 10:42:14 PM »
All true, but the fact of the REAL event was, pilots with their real life tulips on the line tended to insist on having those advantages as often as they could. They didn't always go diving into a furball willy-nilly all full of testosterone (not many, anyway). If they knew they had a good chance to come out alive, then they'd go. Now of course, there were exceptions to this in every air force... but these tended to either get killed, or to be good enough to become legends. Thousands upon thousands of other pilots flew more like "mere mortals"...

It is very hard to "model" fear of death in a sim... but I try to put survival as job #1, a bit ahead of "fulfilling the mission". Gamers are only interested in "blowing sh*t up" so they play by different rules, not thinking twice about a HO when prudence might suggest they work for a better shot before hosing away... and the list goes on.

Anyway, I don't mean to say dueling doesn't help at all... just that its utility is limited some by it's stilted nature.

Your assuming the two are mutually exclusive and they are not. I've got no problem per se with folks "flying to live" and I have a tremendous amount of respect for guys like Greebo, Griz, Blukitty and a host of others who can consistency land kills while still actively engaging (often at a disadvantage) relatively all comers. I also have similar regard for the top duelers. Like most of us I don't fall in either catagory but I can hold my own with most folks I run into 1 on 1 and as a general rule can "host" an observer and fly a multi-kill sortie in most plane types. As a general rule I never fly above 10-12k on these hops, normally engage in at least a bit of "furballing" and normally are outnumbered/defensive at some point. I don't film them all but here are s few...

http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/109clip.ahf   
This is a smaller part of a 109 flight.

http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/MAhop.ahf 
This is a hog clip

I've got others but I don't think they play in the current version. The point here is that you don't have to fly timidly or at great altitude or in a horde (of your guys) or in an "uber" or perk ride to be reasonably successful in the MA. This is a simulation and in my mind a game of skill....but a game in the end. Balancing flying to live with flying to fight is an overlooked part of the equation in my mind.


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Offline uptown

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #101 on: January 09, 2010, 07:04:33 AM »
Thankyou Bruv for the time you took to work with me yesterday. It took a minute for the british accent to sink in, "me speakin' redneck and all" :lol But after that you explained some things quite well sir. I got 2 or 3 fantastic fights later in MA.  :salute
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2010, 08:12:22 AM »
The point here is that you don't have to fly timidly or at great altitude or in a horde (of your guys) or in an "uber" or perk ride to be reasonably successful in the MA.

Alt is a crutch that some of the top score players take advantage of. Honestly most of them are terrible if you get them into a knife fight
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #103 on: January 09, 2010, 08:45:42 AM »
some of the top score players are terrible if you get them into a knife fight
names please? :aok

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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Dueling vs MA fighting
« Reply #104 on: January 09, 2010, 08:49:21 AM »
names please? :aok
That might violate a rule but ill pm you 1 :devil
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