improved engine/aircraft model

[Traveler]

Would like to see a more realistic aircraft engine model.  Currently every aircraft in AH can is be flown with the engine throttle fire walled.  Currently the only time an engine overheats is when WEP is applied or engine oil pressure is lost.  This is just not realistic.  All the aircraft engines of the time were subject to over heating and had performance limits set that when exceeded for extended periods of time resulted in a engine over heating and or a seized engine.

I dare say that no one in the game limits RPM or Manifold settings currently. 

I think it would add a new dynamic to the game, be interesting to see the effects on game play if pilots were unable to just dash about at full power all the time.  It would add a degree of reality and make for a more accurate aircraft model.

I don’t know if the program elements are all in place to effect this type of change, but right now it’s possible to control Manifold pressure and RPM and the engine over heating element is present for WEP.  I’ve got to think that it could be expended for other RPM settings as well without much trouble.

[gyrene81]

You might want to read this whole thread before you go any further with your wish...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283332.0.html

[jdbecks]

I already adjust throttle and rpm for both curising around and whilst engaged.

But why will this be fun? to have engine failures etc

[Karnak]

You'd be shocked at the punishment some of these engines could take.  The majority of limitations in the pilot's handbooks are about engine longevity and maintenance cycles, not about preventing engine failures.

Off hand I recall reading of a Spitfire pilot who panicked and ran his Spitfire on WEP for about 30 minutes straight.  They pulled the engine and did a thorough check on it, but could find nothing wrong with it so returned it to service.

[bj229r]

I limit my rpms when gas gets down near 120 gallons (which gets you 12 minutes at full power...14 or so at wep)....at 2200, N gets like 40-50% more time aloft, with little speed loss in level flight

[Traveler]

You might want to read this whole thread before you go any further with your wish...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283332.0.html

Not sure what you mean by "before you go any further with your wish".  My wish is posted.  I've taken it as far as I can.  Also in comparison to the thread that you included.  I am not asking for Engine warm up times, cowel flaps or any of that.  I'd just like to see the aircraft engine performance limited as stated in my wish.

[Karnak]

Not sure what you mean by "before you go any further with your wish".  My wish is posted.  I've taken it as far as I can.  Also in comparison to the thread that you included.  I am not asking for Engine warm up times, cowel flaps or any of that.  I'd just like to see the aircraft engine performance limited as stated in my wish.

Your wish is highly unrealistic.  You want our engines in the game to be unrealistically fragile and limited.

[Traveler]

I already adjust throttle and rpm for both curising around and whilst engaged.

But why will this be fun? to have engine failures etc

If you currently adjust throttle adn rpm, then my wish will not effect your game play and has no impact on you.

It will require a greater undersanding of how the actual performance of an aircraft engine might impact a fight.  Currently there is no penalty for abusing engine performance everyone , except you, does it.

[Traveler]

You'd be shocked at the punishment some of these engines could take.  The majority of limitations in the pilot's handbooks are about engine longevity and maintenance cycles, not about preventing engine failures.

Off hand I recall reading of a Spitfire pilot who panicked and ran his Spitfire on WEP for about 30 minutes straight.  They pulled the engine and did a thorough check on it, but could find nothing wrong with it so returned it to service.

I would not be shocked, my dad flew P47 and later P51 in WWII.  He preferred the 47 because it could take a beating and still get him back to base.  Pilots were assigned planes, Planes were assigned to missions.  Longevity and Maintenance was a daily issue for squadrons. 

I’m just wishing for a more realistic engine model.  One that would require pilots to adhere to performance restriction.  I’m not seeking a required warm up period or the inclusion of cowl flaps operations.  I’m just saying that WWII aircraft were not able to operate with the throttle fire walled and not overheat the engine.  There were restrictions on Manifold Pressure, RPM and Max power limits. 

We currently have a limit based on engine temperature for WEP, Why? Because it's more realistic. 

[gyrene81]

You'd be shocked at the punishment some of these engines could take.  The majority of limitations in the pilot's handbooks are about engine longevity and maintenance cycles, not about preventing engine failures.

Off hand I recall reading of a Spitfire pilot who panicked and ran his Spitfire on WEP for about 30 minutes straight.  They pulled the engine and did a thorough check on it, but could find nothing wrong with it so returned it to service.

So what you're saying Karnak, if I'm reading this correctly...is that if I told you that one Ford 428 Cobrajet engine ran for 4 hours straight at 10,000 rpms without any visible signs of damage all of those engines could do the same thing. Is that correct?

[Traveler]

Your wish is highly unrealistic.  You want our engines in the game to be unrealistically fragile and limited.

Not at all, I'm suggesting that the engines were very reliable as operated by the USAAF during WWII.  That the operations of the engines was guided by performance manuals that pilots referenced during planning and the actual flight.  I know this to be a fact, either that or my Dad was the only fighter pilot in WWII  that used them.

I also know for a fact that the T6 and P40 as well as the F4 Corsair will over heat if the engine limits are not respected.  I have over 1000 hours split between them  and over 400 hours in a B25.  I worked for a company that would put these aircraft on display at air shows.  I ferried these aircraft up and down the east coast and as far west as Oshkosh for most of the 80,s and 90’s.  

Everyone always stresses how accurate the model is in Aces High, well as far as aircraft engine operation goes,  its not.  But it could be.

[gyrene81]

Not at all, I'm suggesting that the engines were very reliable as operated by the USAAF during WWII.  That the operations of the engines was guided by performance manuals that pilots referenced during planning and the actual flight.  I know this to be a fact, either that or my Dad was the only fighter pilot in WWII  that used them.

I also know for a fact that the T6 and P40 as well as the F4 Corsair will over heat if the engine limits are not respected.  I have over 1000 hours split between them  and over 400 hours in a B25.  I worked for a company that would put these aircraft on display at air shows.  I ferried these aircraft up and down the east coast and as far west as Oshkosh for most of the 80,s and 90’s.  

Everyone always stresses how accurate the model is in Aces High, well as far as aircraft engine operation goes,  its not.  But it could be.

Ah, you're that Traveler...I was wondering where you were getting your notions. Hate to say it but the "game" side of AH will prevail over the "more realistic" because the game side is the bread and butter of the player base.

[Traveler]

Ah, you're that Traveler...I was wondering where you were getting your notions. Hate to say it but the "game" side of AH will prevail over the "more realistic" because the game side is the bread and butter of the player base.

if that were true then the WEP limit makes no sense.  Nothing wrong with the game side of things, just want to make the game more interesting.  AH has already established many limits within the game.   I'm just pointing out the lack of engine performance limits.  Not trying to make it more difficult, but more challenging.  Why have G limits on aircarft?  Because it makes the game more challenging.  I just think that engine performance limits would do the same thing.

[Krusty]

Your wish is highly unrealistic.  You want our engines in the game to be unrealistically fragile and limited.

I disagree...

Simply wanting different heat/overheat for different engine settings isn't a problem. I'd love to see that realistically modeled someday. He's not asking for instant engine explosions if you use wep for 5.0001 minutes, or anything (like another thread).

Many folks do use throttle/rpm settings in-game, but currently only for range/fuel issues. I'd like to see bombers limited to historic power settings. Until we get engine over-heats (and some form of engine wear if levels are exceeded that HTC comes up with and we all accept), bombers run around at speeds comparable to many fighters' top speeds.

Overall it's a decent wish, but given current gameplay limitations and (from what I can tell) given HTC's current line of focus, I don't think we'll see it soon.

[bj229r]

Yall are just BEGGING for HT to come in here and slap yall around like red-headed step children (5pointOh aside )