Perking Spit 16

[Boozeman]

By "fight it into the stall" you mean "pull too far back on the stick" just like in any other aircraft.

No. The difference is that the threshold between "still ok" and "pulled to hard" is very wide on the Spitfire, This makes it very easy to ride the stall and small errors in stick modulation are not enough to trigger a departure. And even if you go too far, the departure is mild and instantly corrected with opposite aileron imput. These features make the spit indeed difficult to stall, bacause in a sense you have to screw it up on purpose to push it into a serious stall.

[Boozeman]

Booze some of my most favorite rides are the 109 series and the P38, just cause I like to fly Spits doesnt mean I limit myself to them

Well, I see... now since you have also eperience in the 109 series, don't you think that later 109s are much more difficult at riding the stall and are more prone to violent departures than the later Spit models? 

[waystin2]

Well, I see... now since you have also eperience in the 109 series, don't you think that later 109s are much more difficult at riding the stall and are more prone to violent departures than the later Spit models? 

The 8 & 14 can be vicious in their own way when riding the stall point.  The 16 is different animal, not perk-worthy but certainly harder to stall out.

[Viperius]

Well, I see... now since you have also eperience in the 109 series, don't you think that later 109s are much more difficult at riding the stall and are more prone to violent departures than the later Spit models?  

Yes absolutly I never doubted that. You missed my point the Spit 16 is a very good aircraft but it isn't unbeatable.

Try the Spit 14 if you want a Spit that is more prone to violent departures

[321BAR]

Unless the Spitfire V had an overwhelming energy/altitude advantage over you, there is no way one could have caught you in a Spitfire Mk XIV unless you screwed the pooch and seriously messed up.


ack-ack

sorry man i meant VIII.

[Ack-Ack]

sorry man i meant VIII.

You do know that the VIII and the XVI share the same engine and only around 5mph slower at similiar altitudes, right?  The VIII is basically a XVI that's just a little more pudgy (approx. 350lb heavier) than its cousin and without the clipped wings.  Easily explains how one was able to catch you.


ack-ack

[321BAR]

sorry. ik it seems like im trying to drag this out but i dove from 10k the spitVIII was around 2-3k below me climbing when i dove. so either he had more E than me at the start or i didnt have wep on but im still saying the XIV should be unperked cuz it cant turn like the others and when you get to an alt that you can use it there isnt enough fuel to last up high

[Karnak]

No. The difference is that the threshold between "still ok" and "pulled to hard" is very wide on the Spitfire, This makes it very easy to ride the stall and small errors in stick modulation are not enough to trigger a departure. And even if you go too far, the departure is mild and instantly corrected with opposite aileron imput. These features make the spit indeed difficult to stall, bacause in a sense you have to screw it up on purpose to push it into a serious stall.

Spits in reality also gave very advanced warnings of an approaching stall.

[Boozeman]

Yes absolutly I never doubted that. You missed my point the Spit 16 is a very good aircraft but it isn't unbeatable.

Try the Spit 14 if you want a Spit that is more prone to violent departures

Well it seems we both missed each others points somehow. 

All I wanted to say is that the ridiculous claims of non-stalling Spitfires are (at least for me) somehow understandble from a certain viewpoint. Before my P-39 addiction, I extensively used the C.205 - compared to the Spits, the Spits indeed seem "unstallable", since at points where the 205 is already struggling badly, the Spit still flies like a dream. And the 205 in not even the worst of the lot, by any means. 

And yes, the 14 is the odd exception of the bunch.   

[Boozeman]

Spits in reality also gave very advanced warnings of an approaching stall.

No doubt about that. It's one of the reasons it does not stall like any other aircraft, at least if we take a more detailed view on it than the simple black/white approach.

[Viperius]

Well it seems we both missed each others points somehow. 

All I wanted to say is that the ridiculous claims of non-stalling Spitfires are (at least for me) somehow understandble from a certain viewpoint. Before my P-39 addiction, I extensively used the C.205 - compared to the Spits, the Spits indeed seem "unstallable", since at points where the 205 is already struggling badly, the Spit still flies like a dream. And the 205 in not even the worst of the lot, by any means. 

And yes, the 14 is the odd exception of the bunch.   

I had a discussion about this topic yesterday with a squadmate and he brought up a good point.
Maybe the reason many guys perceive the Spit 16 as unstallable is because the guy has his stall limiter on which might explain the magical nonstalling properties but also gives you a way to beat that guy by knowing that he won't be able to use the full performance of his aircraft and by flying yours to the edge of its performance you will beat him.

Spitfires have a very nasty inverted stall with the limiter off and the only way to get out of it is turning your engine off and enough alt for the plane to recover.

I personally think that the elliptical wings are the key to the Spits dream like flying characteristics.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I had a discussion about this topic yesterday with a squadmate and he brought up a good point.
Maybe the reason many guys perceive the Spit 16 as unstallable is because the guy has his stall limiter on which might explain the magical nonstalling properties but also gives you a way to beat that guy by knowing that he won't be able to use the full performance of his aircraft and by flying yours to the edge of its performance you will beat him.

Spitfires have a very nasty inverted stall with the limiter off and the only way to get out of it is turning your engine off and enough alt for the plane to recover.

I personally think that the elliptical wings are the key to the Spits dream like flying characteristics.

All the elliptical wing does is give you the magical elliptical lift distribution. That helps minimize induced drag - typically over a 5-15% improvement over a straight wing with finite lift at the tips. It's all about tip vortices, this reduction. Tip vortices? Yes - lift is a pressure diff acting an an area. If your tip section is producing lift, you've got a pressure diff across it and pressure diffs cause flow, in this case from bottom to top around thetip and continuously as you fly. This doesn't obtain for those Spits with the elliptical planform but probably does obtain for the XVI, the bludgeon of the bunch, as I would call it.

I'd attribute the dream-like low-speed characteristics of the Spit to advantageous wingloading and generous control surfaces, but then, I'm a reality-based kind of guy.

[Bruv119]

I personally think that the elliptical wings are the key to the Spits dream like flying characteristics.

Mitchell was a genius!    Thank god he was British.   

[PJ_Godzilla]

I personally think that the elliptical wings are the key to the Spits dream like flying characteristics.

And, in addition to my post above, consider the following counterpoint, also equipped with an elliptical wing: P-47 (oink, oink)

[Guppy35]

And, in addition to my post above, consider the following counterpoint, also equipped with an elliptical wing: P-47 (oink, oink)

Check the wing loading differences on the Spit and Jug. Might explain things a but