Author Topic: Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)  (Read 1625 times)

Offline RAM

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2000, 04:53:00 AM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by Kieren:
Ok, let's get it out in the open!

What a/c matches up with the following a/c?
FW190D-9          ----P51D,P47D      
Spitfire XIV      ----Ta152H  
Ta-152C           ----P51H,P47M
Ta-152H           ----SpitXIV              
Ki-84             ----SpitIX
La-7              ----Me109K4
P47M              ----Ta152C
P51H              ----Ta152C
Me262             ----Meteor (meteor too slow)
Fiat G55          ----SpitIX
Mosquito (later Mk's)-Ju88S
Gloster Meteor    ----Me262
A26 Invader       ----Ju188
Ar234             ----nothing     but it wont be so uncatchable. P47D and P51D on dive could get it)
B29               ----Ta152C     Go229                  

and the immediate post-war:

P80               ----Go229     , Ta183        
F8F               ----Ta152C
Spitfire Mk22     ----MiG15 (same date     ) ROFLOL!
La9               ----Me109K14
Meteor            ----Go229, Ta183


Hope it is clear. Germany had matchups for ANYTHING the allied could throw to them...well the Spit Mk22 (with counter rotating props) was an UFO...but without the CR props it was a ROTATING TORQUE UFO         .

Also note the difference between Ta152H (Ju enginged) and C (DB603 engined). DB engine was more powerful and had better high altitude handling. I believe it had a longer span too, so more wing surface, climbrate and  better hi alt altitude handling for the cost of some of its rollrate. Not a bad compromise IMHO.

------------------
Ram, out

Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen"

       


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-24-2000).]

funked

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2000, 05:35:00 AM »
Comparison of Spitfire Mk. XIV and Ta 152H is not quite right, based on number in service and time of service.

P-80's flew combat sorties in the Med.

Very selective pro-Luftwaffe thinking by RAM.    

Now tell me what matchup does the Luftwaffe have for F-22?

 

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-24-2000).]

Offline RAM

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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2000, 05:43:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:
Comparison of Spitfire Mk. XIV and Ta 152H is not quite right, based on number in service and time of service.

I agree but I am giving comparisons on what, for me, should be equal planes. As equal I understand planes that have drawbacks and advantages, not the same,but that they would do them be in a stalemate in an one on one fight co-E. For example, Me109E and SpitI. They were different but roughly equals, the 109 slightly better, or SpitIX versus Fw190A4...again with Fw better than Spit (as Fw rules the engagement due its better speed)
As so I regard Ta152 as SpitXIV's equal with Ta slightly better than Spit.
 
Quote

Very selective pro-Luftwaffe thinking by RAM.      
LOL!...thats for people who thinks that Luftwaffe was in technical inferiority on 1945 only because P51H and F8F were coming. nahhh  

 
Quote
Now tell me what matchup does the Luftwaffe have for F-22?

ROFLMAO!!!  
Eurofighter  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-24-2000).]

funked

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2000, 05:47:00 AM »
I understand what you are saying now about equal planes, and I agree.  For every super-plane on one side, you can find an equal super-plane on the other.  The only exception is the Japanese, as they never got any seriously fast planes into production.

Offline -aper-

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2000, 06:21:00 AM »
Yak-3
Ki-100
F6F
P-63
Yak-9T,K
P-39
Mosquito
He-219

Offline juzz

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2000, 06:23:00 AM »
Ta 152H-1 Specs.

Jumo 213E 1750hp T/O, 2050hp MW 50.
Max speeds: 332mph, 350mph MW 50 @S/L. 465mph MW 50 @30k. 472mph GM 1 @41km.
Initial climbrate: 3445fpm MW 50.
Ceiling: 48.5k GM 1.
Loaded weight: 10,472lbs.
Powerloading: 6.1lbs/hp or 5.1lbs/hp MW 50 @S/L.
Wingloading: 41.7lbs/sq ft. AR = 8.9

 
Quote
The Ta, slightly put, 0wned.

Sorry, but just because one story says it could out turn a Tempest on the deck, that does NOT make it an "uberfighter".

Ie: At altitudes up to 20k, the Fw 190D-9 would be superior in all aspects except turning. BUT, the Ta 152H-1 had heavier controls and lost some of the rollrate of the Fw 190, so it looses some manoeuverability there.

The reason it would unbalance the arena is it would be too good for taking out high alt buffs, they would be flying around at 40k+, and being flown by hordes of K.Tank groupies.  

Offline leonid

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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2000, 06:37:00 AM »
RAM,
A 109K-4 would be a match for anyone really.  That thing climbs like nothing else.  A dog to maneuver though.

Now a Yak-3/Vk-108 would really be a nightmare(Yes, this is one step beyond Verm's dream)!  Climbs 16404ft in 3.5 minutes, or something like that!  Top speed was 462mph at 20600ft.  Had a 23mm NS-23 (60rds), which while low mv had a high rof.  I shudder to think what kind of acceleration this diminutive fighter variant had.  It would absolutely shred.  Oh, and almost forgot, Yak-3s had the best view in the house too!

Pyro, I change my mind!  This is my pick for uber-postwar-fighter-aircraft!!!

   

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 05-24-2000).]
ingame: Raz

Offline Citabria

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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2000, 07:14:00 AM »
P-38K

just humor me  
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2000, 10:44:00 AM »
Nath, the reason I think the Ta-152 would not be unbalancing is like Juzz said, below 20k the 190D9 was a superior aircraft.

Plus almost all Ta-152's, were the H0 (zero) model, not the H1. The H0 did not have either MW50 or GM1 boost systems, due too production problems and availability. But otherwise was similar to the H1.

I have some charts of Focke-Wulf's own performance testing and comparison between the D9,D12&13, 152C (only prototypes ever built), and the H0 & H1 models. And of all these planes I would much rather have the D9 than any of the others.

If I remember correctly, of the entire Ta-152 production run (very small in its own right), approximately less than 30 of them were the H1.

Leonid, I finally found a production number on the Yak3's with the Vk107's. Of the Yak3's produced during the war, 100 of them were equipped with the 107.

Yep the Yak3(107) would be a real terror, in fact its one of the few aircraft that I can think of that could compete with a Spit XIV on even terms.

 
Quote
Pyro, I change my mind! This is my pick for uber-postwar-fighter-aircraft!!!

  I agree, the two uber planes I want too see the most are this Yak3 variant, and the P-51H

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Offline Hristo

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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2000, 12:28:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:

P-80's flew combat sorties in the Med.


Again !

Against who ? Did it fire single shot ?

Was enemy closer than 500 miles at least ?!


funked

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Late-War Match-ups (warning: inflammatory material!)
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2000, 12:37:00 PM »
There were several sheep with Nazi sympathies in the area.    

Seriously though, at the end of the war there were more P-80's in service with the USAAF (45) than there were Ta 152's ever built!

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-24-2000).]

Offline Gorf

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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2000, 12:51:00 PM »
WHAT ABOUT the F7F!!!  SHEESH Always the F8F but everyone forgets about the F7F.  May I remind all that the F7F was A LOT closer to seeing combat then the F8F in WWII, by about 1000 miles.

 

Gorf

Offline mx22

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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2000, 02:40:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:
Comparison of Spitfire Mk. XIV and Ta 152H is not quite right, based on number in service and time of service.

P-80's flew combat sorties in the Med.

Very selective pro-Luftwaffe thinking by RAM.    

Now tell me what matchup does the Luftwaffe have for F-22?

 

Ohh yes no wonder funked. We cannot be allowed to fly in a competative plane, it's as easy as this. We with our elderly SpitIX manage to shoot down lots of LW boys, now you want them to vote for giving us more or less late war SpitXIV? They will extinct like dinasours
Btw, I noted that LW crowd might be one of the most dedicated, but also it's also the most whining bunch of people with a "everything for me, none for you" way of thinking.

mx22

Offline Hristo

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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2000, 02:44:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:
There were several sheep with Nazi sympathies in the area.      

Seriously though, at the end of the war there were more P-80's in service with the USAAF (45) than there were Ta 152's ever built!

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-24-2000).]

I was always under impression tat some 140 or so Ta 152s were built.

140 > 45  


Offline Karnak

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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2000, 02:47:00 PM »
Sundog, the Germans lost quite a few Ar234s to diving Hawker Tempests; Spitfire XIVs could have also cought it in a dive.  The Meteor would have outrun it easily in level flight.

Funked and Hristo, the Meteor was stationed in France in March 1945 to counter the Me262.  They never met, but Meteors did get MUCH closer than 500 miles to enemy aircraft.  They also saw service against V-1s, downing may of them.

In all seriousness, I don't want to see any ultra-late/post-war aircraft.  No Spitfire F.21, no Ta152, no F7F/F8F, ect, ect.

The latest war aircraft/vehicles that I'd like to see are as follows:

Fw190D-9
Bf-109K-4
Tempest MkV
Spitfire MkXIV
P-47D
Ki-100
B-29
J3M2
Koenig Tiger

If jets were going to be introduced (which I'm not sure they should be), I'd select the following:

Me262
Ar234
Meteor MkIV
P-80

Some other, not so late war aircraft I'd like to see:

Brewster Buffalo (In Finnish colors)
Il-2
Pe-2
The 3 engined Italian bomber (Don't know Italian aircraft by name)
Mosquito
Me410
Hurricane
F6F
B-25
Wellington
He111
Ju87
P-40
I-16
P-61
He219
He177
SBD
TBF
"Kate"
"Val"
PBY
H8K2 "Emily"
Russian 4 engined bomber (Don't know my Russian aircraft by name either)
D.520 (French)
Ki61
Sherman
T-34/85
Whirblewind
Panther

Sisu


[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-24-2000).]
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