Author Topic: P38 Gear Extension Speed  (Read 2757 times)

Offline Traveler

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P38 Gear Extension Speed
« on: February 20, 2010, 11:43:00 AM »
USAAF Manual AAF 51-127-1 available online shows the gear extension speed at 175MPH.  The Airspeed for Gear extension in AH is 150 MPH, this model is incorrect.  I'd like to see the airspeeds for Gear extension set closer to the historical values.


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Offline PewterC5

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 11:55:36 AM »
i think all aircraft in the game except the jets have a 150mph gear extension speed.

Offline Raptor

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 12:07:29 PM »
F4U gear comes out at what... 350?

Offline Soulyss

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 12:32:32 PM »
I can appreciate the interest of modeling every little subsystem, within the confines of the game here I can understand reasons for a slightly more generic model in place. 

Consider this, if you first assume (always dangerous I know) that the primary focus of AH is the accurate modeling of WW2 era air combat, and that the game is geared more towards this than a true flight simulation, and one of the primary draws of that design is the opportunity to pit various aircraft against each other.  Then some concessions, to aircraft operation begin to make sense, modeling each individual gear speed limit would make it more difficult for players to switch between aircraft and ultimately wouldn't add anything other than forcing players to learn specific data tables in order to tell them when to push a button on the keyboard.  It would seem to detract from the ability of a player (particularly a newer player) from enjoying the game without really adding anything substantial in the process.


Of course these are just random thoughts that seem to make sense in my tiny little mind, I could be way off base. :)

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Offline FLS

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 12:39:41 PM »
The F4U is an exception because the gear was the dive brake.

Offline Traveler

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 01:04:32 PM »
I can appreciate the interest of modeling every little subsystem, within the confines of the game here I can understand reasons for a slightly more generic model in place.  

Consider this, if you first assume (always dangerous I know) that the primary focus of AH is the accurate modeling of WW2 era air combat, and that the game is geared more towards this than a true flight simulation, and one of the primary draws of that design is the opportunity to pit various aircraft against each other.  Then some concessions, to aircraft operation begin to make sense, modeling each individual gear speed limit would make it more difficult for players to switch between aircraft and ultimately wouldn't add anything other than forcing players to learn specific data tables in order to tell them when to push a button on the keyboard.  It would seem to detract from the ability of a player (particularly a newer player) from enjoying the game without really adding anything substantial in the process.


Of course these are just random thoughts that seem to make sense in my tiny little mind, I could be way off base. :)



If the aircraft in the game are not modeled accurately then how is it an accurate simulation of air combat.  If in  a dog fight in a P38 and you can’t set maneuvering flaps at 50% or use gear at 175MPH to slow the aircraft to force an overshoot , how is that an accurate simulation of Air Combat?

If the aircraft are not modeled correctly how can you consider it an accurate modeling of WWII aircraft?  

 Here is what Hitech Creations says and I’m quoting from their web page

Aces High Game Features
 
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.
•   Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.
•   Fight against hundreds of real players from around the world.
•   Multiple arenas with unique environments offer different styles of gameplay.
•   Constant updates and additions keep the game fresh.
•   Create historical skins for your plane.
•   Start or join a squadron for even more fun.
•   Participate in special events recreating scenarios from World War II.
•   Learn from films you can record and view using the Aces High Film Viewer.
•   Design and build your own terrain with the Aces High Terrain Editor.
•   In game voice support.
•   The most flexible view system in the genre. Tailor it to your liking.
•   Full, true 3D cockpits.
•   Customize your commands on the keyboard and the joystick.
•   In-game secure account management.
•   Auto-update in the game for all updates.
•   Auto-update for all new skins released for the game.
•   Free offline practice and missions.
•   Free 2 week online trial (no billing information needed).
   

The number one bullet item states an “Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.”

That’s just not true.  If the P38L has flaps that can’t be set to ½ flaps and you can’t lower he gear at 175MPH, that’s just not accurate.
 

« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 01:14:09 PM by Traveler »
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 01:26:56 PM »
LOL seems like you are picking nits now.  slow to 175 and hit the gear lever.  turn base at 150.  Turn final at 150 reducing to 130.  Over the fence at 110 full flaps.

Tell ya what.  Go fly some landings off line by the book.  Be slowing to 175 on downwind towards 150 on base and hit your dear button.  Bottom line is the gear is out and you are slowing to land at 150.

Next thing you know you'll be asking for random engine failures and freezing cockpits in the name of realisim.
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Offline Bronk

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 01:40:04 PM »
LOL seems like you are picking nits now.  slow to 175 and hit the gear lever.  turn base at 150.  Turn final at 150 reducing to 130.  Over the fence at 110 full flaps.

Tell ya what.  Go fly some landings off line by the book.  Be slowing to 175 on downwind towards 150 on base and hit your dear button.  Bottom line is the gear is out and you are slowing to land at 150.

Next thing you know you'll be asking for random engine failures and freezing cockpits in the name of realisim.

We could use the "guy with a baseball bat" when killed for people who want excess realism. :aok
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 01:50:54 PM »
If the aircraft in the game are not modeled accurately then how is it an accurate simulation of air combat.  If in  a dog fight in a P38 and you can’t set maneuvering flaps at 50% or use gear at 175MPH to slow the aircraft to force an overshoot , how is that an accurate simulation of Air Combat?

If the aircraft are not modeled correctly how can you consider it an accurate modeling of WWII aircraft?  

 Here is what Hitech Creations says and I’m quoting from their web page

Aces High Game Features
 
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.
•   Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.
•   Fight against hundreds of real players from around the world.
•   Multiple arenas with unique environments offer different styles of gameplay.
•   Constant updates and additions keep the game fresh.
•   Create historical skins for your plane.
•   Start or join a squadron for even more fun.
•   Participate in special events recreating scenarios from World War II.
•   Learn from films you can record and view using the Aces High Film Viewer.
•   Design and build your own terrain with the Aces High Terrain Editor.
•   In game voice support.
•   The most flexible view system in the genre. Tailor it to your liking.
•   Full, true 3D cockpits.
•   Customize your commands on the keyboard and the joystick.
•   In-game secure account management.
•   Auto-update in the game for all updates.
•   Auto-update for all new skins released for the game.
•   Free offline practice and missions.
•   Free 2 week online trial (no billing information needed).
   

The number one bullet item states an “Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.”

That’s just not true.  If the P38L has flaps that can’t be set to ½ flaps and you can’t lower he gear at 175MPH, that’s just not accurate.
 



We're not talking flaps, we're talking landing gear speeds.  What's more dumping landing gear in a 38 in a fight is not going to accomplish anything, if you're trying to force an over shoot there are better ways to do it.  If not having the ability to drop landing gear in a 25mph window of the flight envelope cost someone the fight then that person has a lot more to think about why he/she lost the fight. 

I still say that setting a more or less constant speed for landing gear deployment across the plane set adds more to the game in terms of accessibility without detracting one bit from the modeling of air combat.
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 02:00:05 PM »
Actually I stand corrected, my argument does in fact have some holes in it.

The largest one being that you CAN actually deploy the P-38's landing gear at 175mph.  I just tested it in the TA on all three models.  In fact it appears you can deploy them above that speed but over 200mph and they come off. :)

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Offline cactuskooler

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 02:05:16 PM »
Since when can't you deploy your gear at 175?
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Offline CountD90

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 02:14:17 PM »
Gears drop down at below 200MPH, I have no idea what the OP is talking about. Also if you're using your gear to cause overshoots, in anything other than a F4U, you really need to learn some ACM.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 02:19:30 PM »
25 may have been the difference between indicated and true at lower alts
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Offline curry1

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 02:21:00 PM »
F4U gear comes out at what... 350?

id say 450
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Offline Traveler

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Re: P38 Gear Extension Speed
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 02:26:21 PM »
25 may have been the difference between indicated and true at lower alts

All the reference speeds in pilot flight manuals of WWII were about indicated air speed.
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