Un-perk the Spit xiv, or.....

[Karnak]

In my opinion, the Spit 14 benefits from its association with other Spits, while the Tempest is hurt by its association with the Typhoon. We naturally think of the 14 as being good in traditional 'Spit' areas, such as turning and stability of gun platform, even when empirically we are proven otherwise time and again while actually flying the 14. We naturally think the Tempest can't roll or turn because the Typhie can't, and yet the Tempest isn't nearly as bad in those areas.

From my own experience, when I'm flying and want EZ mode, I'll go with a Tempest. When I want a bit of a fun perk plane challenge, I'll fly the 14. This "shouldn't" be the case - the tempest looks like a boat and the other looks like all those ezmode Spits. That in itself proves to me that there must be value in what Lusche is saying.

When it was first added, sure, that might have been possible for some people.  Some of us weren't fooled for a second though.

Now, after all these years, no.  It isn't used because people think it isn't worth the perk points and they know it isn't to be used like a Spitfire Mk IX.

[Kev367th]

change our current version to a XIVe with the cut-down rear fuselage and "bubble" canopy.  also it would be nice if it got the ability to carry the 2*250lb bomb option of the "e" wing (clipped or un-clipped; don't matter).  Or if the afore cannot happen, how about increasing the rounds per 20mm to 175 each; late in the war an increase from 120rpg to 175rpg was made in "e" wing spits, iirc.  No, I am not going to ask for a 4*20mm version or a +25 boost version as this would just encourage spitards to HO or imitate runstangs.

+25lbs on a Griffon - Nope only on Merlins.
Cut down rear and bubble canopy - Made no difference to the performance.
4*20mm - Not an option on a XIV, EVER.
Clipped - FR XIV did use clipped wings.

'e' wings were never used with a 4*20mm option, on any Spit. They were strictly 2*20mm + 2*.5 only.

[leitwolf]

Spit XIV could/should be unperked. The plane is a diva with lots of issues. On a good day she can sing though.  

[save]

sorry my post became a bit offtopic












 

[smoe]

I realize the spit has a very popular history, but after flying them a few times in this arena, and more often shooting many of them out of the HTC sky. I don't believe the spits have ever had a real advantage over the enemy at any time. I put them more in the class of P-39's and Zero's do to their light weight design. The spit could turn, but turn fighting is only good if your opponent is a newbie and drains off his energy. As for the elliptical wing being superior, I don't think so. The elliptical wing was designed (according to a History Channel episode) to house 4-30 cal mg's internally and possibly wing tanks. However, I may be wrong about the wing tank reason/4-30 cals.

Then again, the spit pilots did get the British chicks.

[Kev367th]

As for the elliptical wing being superior, I don't think so. The elliptical wing was designed (according to a History Channel episode) to house 4-30 cal mg's internally and possibly wing tanks. However, I may be wrong about the wing tank reason/4-30 cals.

Mitchell wanted a wing that had -
a) Low drag
b) High lift
c) Could house landing gear, guns etc

Elliptical wing was the best solution, although also the hardest to mass produce.

The Spits wing had most probably the highest critical mach number of any aircraft in WW2 (0.89)

[Motherland]

I realize the spit has a very popular history, but after flying them a few times in this arena, and more often shooting many of them out of the HTC sky. I don't believe the spits have ever had a real advantage over the enemy at any time. I put them more in the class of P-39's and Zero's do to their light weight design. The spit could turn, but turn fighting is only good if your opponent is a newbie and drains off his energy. As for the elliptical wing being superior, I don't think so. The elliptical wing was designed (according to a History Channel episode) to house 4-30 cal mg's internally and possibly wing tanks. However, I may be wrong about the wing tank reason/4-30 cals.

Then again, the spit pilots did get the British chicks.

That's quite possibly the silliest post I've ever read.

[Karnak]

I realize the spit has a very popular history, but after flying them a few times in this arena, and more often shooting many of them out of the HTC sky. I don't believe the spits have ever had a real advantage over the enemy at any time. I put them more in the class of P-39's and Zero's do to their light weight design. The spit could turn, but turn fighting is only good if your opponent is a newbie and drains off his energy. As for the elliptical wing being superior, I don't think so. The elliptical wing was designed (according to a History Channel episode) to house 4-30 cal mg's internally and possibly wing tanks. However, I may be wrong about the wing tank reason/4-30 cals.

Then again, the spit pilots did get the British chicks.

I dunno, but I think the fact that the first American squadron to reach the UK was extremely happy that the Brits gave them a bunch of Spitfire Mk Vs so that they didn't have to face the Luftwaffe in their P-39s is kind of revealing.

[Guppy35]

That's quite possibly the silliest post I've ever read.

I think I'd have to agree with you.  Unbelievable.

Of course putting P39s and Zeros in the same 'class' should be a strong indicator of where that post was going.  But if the history channel said it....

[Angus]

Agree.

[vonKrimm]

+25lbs on a Griffon - Nope only on Merlins.
Cut down rear and bubble canopy - Made no difference to the performance.
4*20mm - Not an option on a XIV, EVER.
Clipped - FR XIV did use clipped wings.

'e' wings were never used with a 4*20mm option, on any Spit. They were strictly 2*20mm + 2*.5 only.

Yes, I erred in saying "+25lbs boost"; I should have said "+21lbs boost" (Dan, how did you let this go by unnoticed?), but again I do not know in a bubble-topped, clipped-wing, 'S' gear (+21lbs boost) XIV squadron saw service.  I do know that one source says that one squadron 2nd TAS XIV was given ground attack duties that entailed lugging 500lbs of bombs on interdiction missions (don't know if it was one 500lb or two 250lb bombs) near the end of the war.   

So far as performance, no the bubble-topped version did not earn a performance improvement, it did make make it more unstable; I was just advocating for better visibility from the cockpit.

[Guppy35]

Yes, I erred in saying "+25lbs boost"; I should have said "+21lbs boost" (Dan, how did you let this go by unnoticed?), but again I do not know in a bubble-topped, clipped-wing, 'S' gear (+21lbs boost) XIV squadron saw service.  I do know that one source says that one squadron 2nd TAS XIV was given ground attack duties that entailed lugging 500lbs of bombs on interdiction missions (don't know if it was one 500lb or two 250lb bombs) near the end of the war.   

So far as performance, no the bubble-topped version did not earn a performance improvement, it did make make it more unstable; I was just advocating for better visibility from the cockpit.

I've never seen a wartime photo of a Spit XIV with bombs.  That doesn't mean it didn't happen of course, but I'd be curious as to what the source was?  They certainly did some strafing, as many went down to flak.  Terry Spencer, who was a F/L with 41 Squadron on XIIs ended up as CO of 350 Squadron and he was shot down twice by flak, escaping the first time from a POW camp and being rescued the second time.  He's still in the Guiness Book for the lowest survived bailout from the last one.

I guess I'm a bit of the same mind as "Ginger" Lacy who was commanding 17 Squadron in the Far East.  He turned down the bubble top XIVs for the high back version as he didn't think the bubble top version looked like a Spitfire should

[Angus]

What other variants saw action after the XIV? The Mk 21 did see some, just not score any air to air. Didn't that one carry a 4x20mm?

[Guppy35]

What other variants saw action after the XIV? The Mk 21 did see some, just not score any air to air. Didn't that one carry a 4x20mm?

91 Squadron got Spitfire 21s in March of 45.  They never encountered an enemy aircraft.  They flew out of Ludham and did some patrols over the Hook of Holland.  Lost 2 to flak and claimed a midget sub.

91 is an interesting bunch as they flew Spit II, V, XII, XIV, IX and 21 during the war, in that order.  No other squadron can claim to have flown 3 Griffon Spits on Ops.  41 would be able to claim 2 with the XII and XIV but any other squadron that had a Griffon Spit in WW2 would have only flown the XIV.

[TonyJoey]

What we DO need is the Spit LF XII



Outruns a typhy on the deck.