Where's WWI going from here?

[Flayed]

  Toad the 3 field setup don't sound bad but I don't see any reason to lower the fields. In fact 5K fields sounds nice so at least the fight could start out at some form of alt and work its way down. 

 Right now the spin in the dirt fighting is one of the biggest detractors for me. Besides if people can just up and fly level it will just save a min or two of climbing and let everyone get back into the grinder that much quicker. and from what I've seen so far zoom in and pick guys aren't a big problem.

 Hmm wonder if it would look like some form of tornado with a swirling mass of planes losing alt from 5 K down lol

[Toad]

Just going on what happens at Furball Lake. The guy you just killed pops off the cliff 5k above where you killed him and just a few minutes flying time from where you are. If you're still in a fight, he'll be back on top of you before  you know it.

The fights do end up in the dirt; I really don't see a reason to give the guy you just killed an instant 5k advantage.

I'd rather have him take off at roughly the altitude the fight was at. He'll be able to climb some before he gets to you but he can't dive at VNE to get back above you in nothing flat.

Just my thoughts.

[Toad]

A note on icons.

First of all, they're here because your monitor doesn't provide anywhere close to the same visual cues you'd be getting in the air. It can't. Aspect, closure, shape, color, etc, etc,; you'd see and understand far more at a glance in the air than you ever will on a PC monitor.

Back around 2002 I made some posts with actual pictures of aircraft to help show the difference but they apparently got lost in the BBS revisions/HD crashes.

These two later ones survive but only give a bit of the info.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,58463.msg538003.html#msg538003

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,10132.msg132942.html#msg132942

Suffice it to say HT put the icons in for a legitimate, realistic reason.

Still, if you think they're too big, like I do, you do know that you can make them smaller, right?

"Players may customize the icon colors and font sizes in Aces High by clicking Options->Preferences->GUI from the clipboard menu."

Go to font size on that page and select Size 10. It's the smallest and I think it helps a lot. For me, it's hard to read the range numbers, it's that small.

[SIK1]

5K! I normally don't fly above 1K. The other day I made it up to 3K and man that is up there.

We don't need anything that makes the player more timid. I have already seen people that are hesitant to engage 1v1. I do like the ack setup, and the  lethality as it is right now. If you didn't have it the fights would be right on the airfields, at times. I don't think I have really seen anyone hug the ack for very long. Just enough to get a little alt, then off to the fight.

Also saw a group of four chase a Dr1 around and all I could think was mine, mine, mine. I said something on range about it, and then it got quite. They did of course continue to follow the Dr1. I do think the Dr1 guy had some skill cause he was holding his own against them, or at least it looked that way as I rtb'd.

[Ghosth]

At this point the biggest single change in the fights in the WWI arena is more about numbers than anything else.

Dawn patrol mornings see 15-20 on, those who are here at this hour tend to be quite good.
The fights generally tend to be pretty good too. Sometimes too good for my limited skills.
(<S> Cattb, Revrand, and all those who regularly kill me in the morning)

Afternoons see 40 - 50 on, and to me this time is the best.
You have a mix of very good pilots, average pilots and some not so good.
Granted some of the average and not so good pilots will HO, will Collide on HO, and a few other things.
But this is more a matter of education and teaching than arena setup.

Evenings with 80 - 100 on is a meat grinder.
You either take your chances with the big furball, do a skuzzy and try to drag one out.
Or go to the center looking for a 1on1.

What I'd like to see change at this point, now the the first rush is past.
Lower the cap to 50- 60 so that we get 2 lower populated arena's in prime time.
Other than prime time it won't change much.

As to the acks, turn the tables. So your trying to take off, there are 5 at your field, and 15 guys at 3k waiting for someone to come out. You going to dive into that at less than 1k knowing that 12 of the 15 will be on your 6?

You don't want someone to hide in the ack, don't fly clear over to their field.
Stop and orbit no more than 2k up at the halfway point. Get your teammates to do the same.
Have a bit of patience. They will come out. Especially if the numbers are anywhere close to even.

If you want to sit 3k up and  pick planes trying to get up, well don't expect me to fell sorry if the Ack gets ya.


The only way this is going to work long term, is if people lead by example, not by running their mouth.
Don't whine, complain, squeak and moan about HO's or collisions, teach by example.
You don't want to get ganged, then don't dive in on that 1 on 1. It will take time to get the majority educated.
But with a small group like this peer pressure works very very well.

You can't control what the other side does directly. However controlling what YOU do, will have an effect that will make itself felt over time. So if you fly with a bit of restraint, and patience, in time others will also.
Encourage your team mates to make the "right" choice. As you sow, so shall you reap.

[CptTrips]

Just going on what happens at Furball Lake. The guy you just killed pops off the cliff 5k above where you killed him and just a few minutes flying time from where you are. If you're still in a fight, he'll be back on top of you before  you know it.

The fights do end up in the dirt; I really don't see a reason to give the guy you just killed an instant 5k advantage.

I'd rather have him take off at roughly the altitude the fight was at. He'll be able to climb some before he gets to you but he can't dive at VNE to get back above you in nothing flat.

Just my thoughts.

Well, lets not get into the whole "toolshed" thing Toad.  That only leads to what we already know we disagree on.  I think we are uncoverings some stuff we CAN agree on.

I wasn't even thinking about the high cliffs in the furball lake.  Maybe just a touch of alt would be nice, but it doesn't need to be those high cliffs.

And the distance is a relative thing.  Furball lake seems small in WWII but would be vast in WWI. I'd like to see the center point between the 3 fields about as far as the mid-point is now between the current field pairs.  Maybe a tad further since 3 teams are now in the mix.  But not too much further.


I think the 3 way tug-of-war spins the fights off into much more interesting patterns than a a straight line conveyor belt.  Add some clouds at 2-3k to play cat and mouse in and I think will will have added quite a bit more variety without adding any strat.


Have we found some common ground?

Regards,
Wab

[CptTrips]

A note on icons.

You and I have always agreed on this.

If there was any change I'd suggest, maybe fade in the icons in transparency as they get closer.  Sometimes All I can see is a WALL of icon on the conveyor belt.  Some are close, many are far away.  By starting the icons near transparency and making them more opaque as they get closer, gives me an additional piece of information to use to prioritize my contacts.  You often can't read the ranges when they are all jumbled together.

Wab

[CptTrips]

You don't want someone to hide in the ack, don't fly clear over to their field.
Stop and orbit no more than 2k up at the halfway point. Get your teammates to do the same.

Ghosth,

I've seen occasions where we've circled until our fuel ran out.  Even numbers.  And they still wouldn't leave their base. 
I've seen occasions where people on my own side are telling everyone to fall back to the base ack and let them come for us.

Given the current conditions, its actually not a bad strategy.  Up close to your base, you can re-feed fighters back into the fights at a much greater speed.  The attacker has to fly all the way back.  At any point if you get in trouble, you just dive for the ack-o-deth.  Its stupid to try and follow them in.  You don't even have a slim chance.  You'd just be giving away a kill.  Eventually the low fuel and damaged have to retreat and then the base huggers can chase them down.

I say turn the tables on THEM!  The penalty for letting the enemy get too close to your base is that it runs the risk of getting temporarily flattened.  To protect your base, you have to push out and defend forward.  Keep the enemy at bay so your buddies can get up and back into the fight.  That gives both teams the motivation to at least meet in the middle.  It would remove the idea of "hey guys, lets fall back to the base ack and let them come to us!"

IMHO,
Wab

[Krusty]

Regarding Toad's comments about icons, check the dates folks. I tol'ya they were having these debates from day 1 of Aces High, and always the answer has been reliably proven that "no icons" is like flying legally blind-as-a-bat.

to this comment:

Just going on what happens at Furball Lake. The guy you just killed pops off the cliff 5k above where you killed him and just a few minutes flying time from where you are. If you're still in a fight, he'll be back on top of you before  you know it.

It was exactly that way in most HTH rooms. They had sea level maps with a single map tile jumping up 5k or something, and as soon as you were gear up you would dive screaming down on something at 400mph.

It was a totally dweebtastic thing to do, and led to THE MOST DWEEBY players you can ever imagine. Trust me, as one who suffered through that kind of crap for a long time, you're spot on the nose! It leads to nothing other than screwing over the guy who's survived the fight, and rewarding the guy who lost (and is now in a position to bounce you endlessly). On top of that, it makes getting OUT of a fight nearly impossible, as those hovering above you never let you get away. They want their revenge for dying to your guns.

[hitech]

I may shorten the Icon range in WW1. Full time radar exist so enemy / friendly ID is not a problem. The only reason I would change is simply to clutter the screen. I was thinking about the 2K range.

HiTech

[Westy]

"The penalty for letting the enemy get too close to your base is that it runs the risk of getting
temporarily flattened.  To protect your base, you have to push out and defend forward."

Ahhh.   Just like the WWII "main arenas" now!  

Sorry but <gack!> that is *exactly* why I stopped flying AH years ago, waited too many blue
moons in vain for CT but now relish and appreciate the new WWI set up. The Ma turned into
a "war winnuh's" sandbox. As soon as penalties are introduced to force a change in my
preference of play or provides others "incentives" to ruin it for me I'll be gone just as fast
again (and so will many others.) I'm not talking for them but the current testicle-free MA arenas
are testament to what I'm talking about. The MA's are romper room of light speed,  augernauts,
milk runners and fight-avoiders all trying to pummel inanimate pixels so they "Winn teH wAhr"


 Westy

[Westy]

"I was thinking about the 2K range."

Sweet! 

Hitech? At what range would the multi-gunner Zeppelin deathstars start
showing up?

[Toad]

In addition to making icons smaller by changing font size, there are options on what is displayed.

Just hold down ALT while cycling through options using the "I" key on your keyboard.

You can cycle through Normal Icon Mode, Plane Type Icon Mode, Friendly Only Icon Mode and Icons Off.

As usual, HT has provided numerous ways to play the game your own way without impacting the fun of other players.

Like no icon play? Turn yours off with ALT I.

Pretty simple really.

[Toad]

Have we found some common ground?

Regards,
Wab

Yes, I think so. FL distance wouldn't be as much of a factor with WW1 speeds.

I think capping arenas at about 60-75 might still be advised in that setup. 100 in FL lake size map would be pretty crowded. Something to experiment with there.

[SIK1]

For those of you feeling "horded" and run through the meat grinder. Might I suggest you try a "Dawn Patrol" some morning.

Normally 7-10 oclock sees anywhere from 14 - 24 people on. Fights are smaller, if you show restraint diving into a 1v1  eventually they may show you some. Do what I do, not what I say always works better than do what I say, not what I do.   


Watch out though as the skill level tends to be quite high.

Ghosth when you say 7-10 o'clock are you talking your time? Which is central, or mountain?