New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3

[jimson]

Geez, this BBS is a friggin meat grinder.

P.S. Jimson, the very reason the AvA is dying and has been for a long time is that they quash any negative feedback, stick fingers in their ear and go "LA LA LA L ALA I can't hear you" if you have anything to say that isn't exactly what the vocal minority agree upon.

Well, that would be something I'm unaware of.

and above all does NOT mean "realistic" either.

Guess it's in the eye of the beholder, whether simulated vision that is less than human acuity is more or less realistic than big red icons.

My question would be why would you care if they tried it in AvA?

Sounds like you aren't much interested in flying there anyway and I'm not suggesting they make it the standard in any other arena.

[Ghosth]

Well what has kept me out of the AvA for years was a group of people who were it seems constantly trying to tell others how to fly/fight. Even if it wasn't directed to me, that was a huge immersion killer. Sucked the fun right out of it.

Last night I spent about an 1.5 hours in there with the pacific enemy icons off setup and had a blast.
I sucked at it, but I had a blast!

Didn't see anything other than salutes, a few apologies, and friendly banter.

It TOTALLY ROCKED!

So, expect to see me regularly as long as the icons stay off and the mood stays upbeat.

 

[Slash27]

P.S. Jimson, the very reason the AvA is dying and has been for a long time is that they quash any negative feedback, stick fingers in their ear and go "LA LA LA L ALA I can't hear you" if you have anything to say that isn't exactly what the vocal minority agree upon. So, no, you can't use "AvA feedback" as a guide for success. Not to mention a novel 1-time (or short-run) experience can be fun because it is different, but does not mean it is successful, and above all does NOT mean "realistic" either.

And there you have it from Krustypidiea.

Jimson, take what you know is working and what people are enjoying and go with it. Don't get bogged down in trying to convince people of anything about the AvA. It's image has been damaged for so long by reasons both just and some just pulled out of thin air that debating it on the BBS is pointless. Focus and what on what a few people are really enjoying and build it from there and let word of mouth do the work.

And for those of you who have not tried this current set up pop in for a few sorties. It's definitely a nice change of pace and loads of fun.

[Shifty]

P.S. Jimson, the very reason the AvA is dying and has been for a long time is that they quash any negative feedback, stick fingers in their ear and go "LA LA LA L ALA I can't hear you" if you have anything to say that isn't exactly what the vocal minority agree upon. So, no, you can't use "AvA feedback" as a guide for success. Not to mention a novel 1-time (or short-run) experience can be fun because it is different, but does not mean it is successful, and above all does NOT mean "realistic" either.

Krusty I've been about as big of pain in the a** that is possible to the AVA staff in the past and recently. I've been a blunt as a wrecking ball. They'll listen, they'll give you a chance all you have to do is give them a chance.

[Ghosth]

It helps if your reasonably polite, and listen back, btw.

[Shifty]

It helps if your reasonably polite, and listen back, btw.

No need to go that far. 

[Easyscor]

Last night I spent about an 1.5 hours in there with the pacific enemy icons off setup and had a blast.
I sucked at it, but I had a blast!

I'm becoming a convert as well, and I didn't expect it either.

[Spikes]

It is worthless to try to sneak up on somebody in AH only because of the big glowing sign above the plane. Would be neat to see the icons sized down a bit or even a single dot over the airplane, red dot. When you are checking your surroundings, you can check them fairly quickly since if there is no 10 foot red neon sign near you, then you are safe.

[Ack-Ack]

its painfully obvious who has and has not flown with no icons .Your arguments are not based in first hand experience.

It's painfully obvious that you sometimes don't know what you're speaking of.  There was a game out way before this one that didn't have icons over the planes, instead it just displayed the ranges on the right side of the screen.  In furballs, it was pretty useless because you often couldn't tell which range belonged to which plane from all the clutter.  My first couple of tours in AH after the Exodus was spent with icons turned off but found it hard to accurately judge the distances and had quite a few collisions.  Ended up turning them back on because no matter how hard I would squint, no way my Mark I Eyeballs would ever be able to accurately just distance or depth on a 2D monitor while trying to move around in a simulated 3D environment.

The only reason why I was able to accurately pick out enemy planes in AW without icons over the plane was the tail was colored depending on the country the pilot belonged to.  If the tail was any other color than red, it was a bad guy but no way I could ID the type of plane until it got close enough that I was able to make out what color the tail was.


ack-ack

[Dawger]

I have loved no icons since I began flying online many years ago. It is just more fun.

I did a lot of research into how the computer monitor compares to real life and I continue to do it for fun at work since I fly airplanes for a living.

Here is what i found............

1. A computer monitor is excellent at long range and short range. Long range it can draw a dot very well and the same applies to short range. The issue is the middle range. The ideal icon system would compensate for this by having some sort of icon for that middle range.

2. SIZE matters. Extensive testing indicates that the size of an airplane is a big factor in aircraft identification. This should come as no surprise and the current icon system does not account for size. An Me109 size aircraft is readily identifiable at about a mile. A B17 at about 3 miles. This is aspect dependent of course, which leads to...............

3. Aspect to target matters. A P38 provides the most extreme example. In plan view the P38 is very easily identified. Side front or rear view and it dissappears. Anyone who has seen a P38 in flight in the real world instantly realizes this.

4. People believe they have superhuman powers of eyesight. Empirical tests prove otherwise. Claims of identifying Me109's at 10 miles are extremely exaggerated. At ten miles the average modern jet airliner is not clearly identifiable. It is a dot or a smudge if its a 747. An Me109 is the size of one of the engines on that smudge.

5. Familiarity with aircraft MATTERS. An expert identifies and aircraft at over twice the range of a casual observer.

The ideal icon system would accomodate all these factors and more I haven't mentioned. No icons is not perfect because a monitor is not real life but the current icon system is a ridiculous, outdated crutch. I think it ruins the beauty inherent to the game and it does help ACM tremendously. Fights are better no icon because there is no artificial range and closure display and instant ID.

One of the things I discovered that is borne out by anecdotal evidence is the fact that a Me109 looks exactly like a P51 in planview at twice the distance. Once you are far enough away that the nose bulges on the 109 blend into the silhouette they are very hard to distinguish.

I love no icons and i am watching this debate and deciding whether it will be around long enough to warrant building a new machine and reopening my account. I'd also love to see AH revise the icon system but there is zero incentive to do that and probably negative incentive.

[Nr_RaVeN]

@ Dawger

 Its allot of fun many have been enjoying this quality style of siminng over the past week or so in the AvA tonight was a blast as well take a look here. The set up is great. Lots of fast paced action .

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,285185.0.html

[Ex-jazz]

Just a word from the past

The No-Icons action was providing a tons of fun back then, when Finnish AH community was beta testing the Kanttori's & Blauk's SEA maps in h2h.

It wasn't all that difficult, because the enemies were flying x set of planes and friendlies y set of planes.

BTW
I have not flying the AH for sometime now. Do the SEA CM's have a forced ICON setting these days?

[Ex-jazz]

Sorry for the punt, but...

Do the SEA CM's have a forced ICON setting these days?