We need night fighters!!! A simple poll

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by Dowding:

Remember that the German high command could have unconditionally surrendered at any time and put a halt to the bombing, the very same day. They are the true criminals - if they didn't give a flying shag about their own people, why should the allies?

why? because doing otherwise would be falling to the same level as their enemies'.

And remember 1940? london bombings? should have Churchill surrendered AT ONCE?. War is hell, right?, and if his civilian population is being bombed day and night, is because he (he and his clearly criminal and biased high command) is a criminal for not surrendering right?.

That line of argument STINKS, m8.

About your argument on the German High command, you know, there were several plots against hitler's life all during the war?. Of course is very easy,isnt it?. You decide that you want the war to end, but happens that Hitler doenst want. What do you do?

1944 plot against hitler is a good show of what do you do, and what do you risk for failing in doing it. Seems you have a short memory right?.

So, war is hell. Perfect. Then why Nuremberg, condemning soldiers?. Then why did Doenitz go to prison for 15 years?. Then why was Goering sentenced to death?. Then why was the major part of the German wehrmacht and luftwaffe's high command sent to prison?. War is hell right?.

Then either of two things: either you do the same trial on the Allies high commanders (Lockwood, Harris, Lemay, even Churchill, stalin, Zukhov,etc...)...or you dont do it at all.

Nuremberg was the epitome of the unfairness, regarding the armed forces. (NOTE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DEATH CAMPS AND EXTERMINATION, I TALK ABOUT MILITARY CHARGES ONLY).

As I said...Vae victis.

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

Topic: "We need night fighters! A simple poll".

Need I add anymore to this?

R4M, another hijacking?

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-27-2001).]

[R4M]

.squelch Ripsnort

 

[Sturm]

Yes rip, could you post some data on the 61?

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

[Dowding]

My arguments stink, RAM? How ironic! At least I put forward arguments, no matter how bad they may be!  

 

no Versalles unfair peace treaty, no WWII. Now who caused WWII the first?

Versailles was A contributory factor. I stress the singular here, because there were a whole host of other causal circumstances. It's kind of like a house of cards, remove one and the whole thing falls down - the Versailles Treaty wasn't the only card.

Most notably is the actual rise of Hitler and his electoral success. He had virtually no support before 1929 from the very influential middle classes. With the downturn in the German economy following the Wall Street crash, the class bands narrowed. The middle classes saw their savings wiped out, business owners were terrified of a communist uprising. One man and one ideology stepped into the breach.

Hitler promised to "make Germany great again", promised afluence and stability to the middle and upper classes. His anti-communist stance helped to bring powerful industry captains to his standard.

In times of hardship, it is a known fact that all sociological classes 'radicalise' and common bigotry comes to the fore. Support for the centre parties melted away, and the Nazis grew in strength.

From May 1928 to March 1933 the Nazis increased the number of elected deputies from 12 to 288. A percentage increase of 2400%. By November 1933 this had increased to 661.

The Nazis had a superb propaganda machine, an unbeatable manifesto (considering the desperation of the populace) and an ideology that had found a common bigotry in the German people - the Jews. They and Versailles would be the scape-goat for Germany's troubles.

But without the Wall Street Crash and the economic hard-ship that followed it, this would have been all for nought.

[Sturm]

Ok answer this how many Japanese were tried and convicted?  Little is known about this and is quite amazing how it is kept under wraps.  The Japanese did the same thing yet basically got a pardon from the US.  There doctors were brought over to the US to continue with the experiments they had started over there, and a little known fact the patients were alive and they were either Chinese Koreans Filipinos and such.  SO please it is not right to acquit one for the same crimes and punish the other, yet doesn't that happen in our criminal justice system now?  Have we learned anything yet?  And can we get back to the original topic of Night Fighters PLEASE!!!!

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

[Dowding]

Sorry all - I won't post about it again.

RAM - start a thread in the 'History' section, if you want to continue.

Cheers.  

BTW, Sturm - Nazi scientists by the bucket load were shipped over to the US for their missile program.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-27-2001).]

[kreighund]

Well, he who is without sin cast the first stone....well that settled that!
Now back to business....He-219 for the Krauts, P-61 for the Yanks, and the Mosquito NF30 for the Brits, and the poor Japs the J1N1-C Gekko"Irving".

Remember, "If you don't bomb our harbors we won't nuke your cities!"

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Sturm:
Yes rip, could you post some data on the 61?

You bet!
P61 Info

[Sturm]

KI-46 for the JP faster then the Irving.  

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by Dowding:
Sorry all - I won't post about it again.

RAM - start a thread in the 'History' section, if you want to continue.

Just do it if you want and I'll answer. I will give a short, concise answer to your post.

If Wall Street clash had happened, but no Versalles in 1919, then no Hitler would've won the elections in Germany.

The opposite was not that true. Germany was going out from the depression it had been into since 1918, but its economy was too fragile without the Saare and Rhineland. And Hitler's call for the awakening of the National Pride would've probably been heard sooner or later. Mostly because, opposite of what you might think Hitler was a quite known man in Germany, first at a local level in Münich, and later after his failed coup wich paradoxically won him a lot of attention and respect.
And later of all, because Goebbels propaganda and the GErman deep desire for revenge after the draconian demands of the Versailles treaty.

Do you know that, had the story have passed with no Hitler, Germany would've have had to pay reparations to France and UK up to 1988?. Germans were deeply insulted by versalles. With or without crash in 1929 the NDSAP would prolly have won the elections in germany sooner or later. Maybe not, but prolly yes.

If Versalles had been a decent, fair peace; then Hitler would've never had its first and most important argument: german nationalism and national pride. Hate against the Jewish was secondary to the first; Hitler had the support of ALL the Major bussinessmen in Germany (because they wanted to recover the Rhineland and its industries). Hitler would've had the money, would've had propaganda and would've had the motive.

Without Versalles he would've had nothing of that.

[Torgo]

It's been my suspicion for a long time that night fighters and night fighter vs. bomber scenarios are one of those things that SOUNDS cool theoretically but, in practice, won't be all that much fun and people will quickly tire of it.

I guess we'll find out :-) I may try to make the nightfighter scenario.

[Glasses]

Also some people may not know that Germany actually wanted to ally themselves with Britain. In the pre war years Germany adored the English culture and their customs they strived to be what the hi monarchy was. But then relations started to go downhill after 'Der Fuhrer' started to ask for His Lebensraum among other things and well we all know what happened next.

Yes Bring the night fighters . Todloo! todloo!

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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
Besser tot als rot