Author Topic: D9 guns again.  (Read 1658 times)

Offline Naudet

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D9 guns again.
« on: April 06, 2001, 07:30:00 AM »
Now after weeks of learning E management, i finally got the time to test the different planes a bit.

And i really was amazed how easy it is with most planes to score hits beyond 500 yrds.
Than i went back to my D9 and yet i noticed a real big difference (which Mandoble always recognized) in gun accuracy. It is really weird how close u have to get to score a few hits with the D9 guns.

I than went offline and did a bit air to air testing with the drones.
1st i choosed a P51, convergence 300 yards. Right from the beginning i was easily getting hits at distances of 700 yards, i did not even have to use great vertikal deflection, i would even say, it was enough to keep the center of the gunsight on same level as tgt, and i score hits up to 750 yards.
I than switched to D9, convergence 300 yrds as in P51, and there was a huge difference, i had to tried many time till i finally got any hits with the D9 at 650-700 yrads, i had to give plenty of vertikal deflection to avoid the bullets dropping short.
I than started to test accuracy at convergence setting. The D9 guns scattered the hit over at least half the drones, most time over the complete drone at convergence range.
I hoped back in P51 and did some more testing, now with the knowledge of the 2 previous test, i score hits a 1100 yards!!! (convergence was still 300 yrds) when closing to convergence all bullets hit the same area  of the tgt, i.e. i tgted for the left elevator/stabilizer, and the from the short burst i got a massive hit only on this one part of the plane, no scattering nothing.

I think it is really time to overhaul the the D9 gun model.
Ge guns are a bit worse than 0.5 cals, but they never ever had only about half the effective range nor about 3-4 times the bullet drop they have now.


Offline Fishu

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2001, 08:07:00 AM »
*rewinds the tape of earlier conversations*
*play*
"yaddayadda blah blah .. better trajectory .. yaddayadda blah .. better velocity .. moanmoan blah .. superior bullet characteristics .. blahblah .."
*stop*

i dont even mind to find the tape about hispano.

Offline janneh

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2001, 09:55:00 AM »
 

Offline Hooligan

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »
Naudet wrote:

 
Quote
Ge guns are a bit worse than 0.5 cals, but they never ever had only about half the effective range nor about 3-4 times the bullet drop....

Mg151 rounds are much slower than .50 rounds and have worse ballistic characteristics.  Shooting at a target about 500 meters away at sea level, 151 rounds will have about 3 times the bullet drop of a .50 before they get to the target.

Hooligan

Offline Karnak

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2001, 11:12:00 AM »
What seemed to help my gunnery in the D-9 was setting the cannon to a 450 convergence and the machineguns to a 250 convergence.

I may have the exact numbers wrong, I will update them when I get home if I remember.

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Offline MANDOBLE

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2001, 12:15:00 PM »
I do not compare D9 with anything but A8 and A5. Hitting with D9 was (is) almost impossible, for me, further than 250 yards. Into 250 yards range I can hit, but expending a lot of ammo. Now I'm back to 190A5 and A8 to be able to hit with precission withing 250 yards range.
I did some tests with D9 offline, 300 cnv and about 300 mph level flight, max zoom and firing bullet by bullet. The conclusion was that dispersion is tremendous and, IMO, erratic (I was unable to put a single bullet passing the exact center of the gunsight). As I said before, any of you can do that simple test and take his own conclusions.

Offline Raubvogel

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2001, 08:12:00 PM »
I flew pretty much nothing but the Dora in Tour 14. Decided to hop into the G10 this tour. It's easier to make deflection shots with 30mm in G10 than with 20mm in Dora. That just doesn't seem right. No hard data, just doesn't seem like it should be like that.

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Sturm

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »
I have shelved the Dora, because shooting in it is to be honest a pain in hte arse.  This is my favroite plane of all time and I don't even fly it.  I am sorry but when you see the kills it gets it is from HO's or getting behind someone that doesn't know you are there.  

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Offline Tony Williams

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2001, 01:16:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel:
It's easier to make deflection shots with 30mm in G10 than with 20mm in Dora. That just doesn't seem right. No hard data, just doesn't seem like it should be like that.


Accurate deflection shooting depends on the time of flight of the projectile, which basically means muzzle velocity.  So you're right, any 20mm should be easier to hit with than the low-velocity MK 108.

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/

Offline Mathman

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2001, 01:36:00 AM »
I tend to agree that the guns on the Dora are tough to kill with.  After spending time in it, I have become used to it and am able to adjust to it now.  I don't know if they are screwed or not, as I am anything but an expert on German (not to mention any other country's...) guns.  Oh well, I will just sit back and enjoy my new favorite ride in AH.  

-math

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Offline Naudet

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2001, 04:55:00 PM »
Now i am totaly sure that something is wrong with the D9 guns.

In this tour about 20-25 kills were lost for me due to the crapy D9 toy guns.

for those that need a bit here are a few examples:

1 spit, 1 niki, 1 F4U as tgt, all fired at from distances below 50 yrds, full power hits, they flew right through my bullets, they really were enlighted by the pings, result: spit flew on without visible dmg, same with the niki, F4U lost one flap,

other examples: Spit at 350 yrds, flying straigt and level, used 60% of my ammo, result on spit 1 lost flap and aileron, total hits on spit about 4

Not to mention, that the forward view in the FW 190 (all models) is crap to, RAF test pilots stated that FW190 had better view than Spit, in AH, no way, FW has worst forward view, especially with the 13mm cooling guns, view should be much better cause FW190 flew 5 degree nose down to maitain level flight, and guns are pointet on level, not in plane long axis.

The GE guns of the D9 miss punch and accuracy, which makes the D9 a nearly useless plane, and for all those that still dont believe, last example, i hit a 109er at 300 yrds (my convergence range) and bullets sprayed from one wingtip to the other wingtip!!!!
Thats a separation of 10-12 yrds, for the D9 there is one thing u can do to improve accuracy, pray for every bullet

[This message has been edited by Naudet (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Naudet (edited 04-10-2001).]

Offline illo

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2001, 05:28:00 PM »
i think i just killed spit with hispano from 1200yards

Still i have hard time hitting at 350yards in 190s

Offline -ammo-

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2001, 05:57:00 PM »
first off, the 151/20 is not even close ballistically to the hispano or the browning 50 cal. Much less velocity.

I flew a dora for this past weekends snapshot, first time in the thing really and got a 6 kill sortie. I see nothing wrong with  the dora's guns at all. Its has more hitting power round for round ove teh 50's in my P-47.
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Offline J_A_B

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2001, 06:04:00 PM »
Now that they have their D-9, F-8, and 152, they needed to think of something else to complain about.

     (all in good humor)

J_A_B

AKSeaWulfe

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D9 guns again.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2001, 09:22:00 PM »
Not this again...

Data, charts, real tests against real world data.. you know that kind of thing might actually put some water in your glass.

Until then, you are just wasting your time.
-SW