MY ARENA CAP IDEA

[WMLute]

Then you give power to big squads for all they have to do is switch sides to mess up the balance.

It still does not address the issue of how to get multiple arenas up to a level where both are fun to be in.

It is my experience that most big squads tend to be very chess piece loyal.

Maybe I am confused by what you are saying here.

Are you saying they would switch to the low #'d side and then once in change back to the side w/ #'s?  (if that is their particular chess piece?)

With my idea (or whomever came up with it originally) when you change sides to enter the arena w/ the low numbers the 1-hour to switch timer is activated.  (you just changed sides)  That would prevent what you just said from occurring.

It really is a decent idea the more I think about it.  It would require some Coading or changing for the Lobby but it WOULD give players the ability to join the arena to help balance out the numbers.

[The Fugitive]

One of the early changes, as HiTech came to grips with the fact a single large arena was killing us, was to change around the radio channels in the hopes new players might actually subscribe.  Whether or not it was actually subscription drop off, or players quitting faster than new ones would sign-up, or attrition due to players not staying as long, or all the above, we had stopped growing.

None of the subtle changes worked.  Once HiTech settled on the dynamic cap, growth came back.  We will never go back to a permanent large format static arena.  It is imperative we occupy more than one arena with a healthy number of players in both, in order to continue to grow.  How that is accomplished is the challenge.

Do you guys think we sit around here all day long trying to figure out ways to piss you off?  If we could have sustained growth with static arena sizes, then that is what we would be doing.  It was proven, beyond any doubt, there is no way to sustain growth with static arena sizes.

Wasn't it Hitech that said at the convention that this game is all about pissing people off?   

[oTRALFZo]

It is my experience that most big squads tend to be very chess piece loyal.

Maybe I am confused by what you are saying here.

Are you saying they would switch to the low #'d side and then once in change back to the side w/ #'s?  (if that is their particular chess piece?)

With my idea (or whomever came up with it originally) when you change sides to enter the arena w/ the low numbers the 1-hour to switch timer is activated.  (you just changed sides)  That would prevent what you just said from occurring.

It really is a decent idea the more I think about it.  It would require some Coading or changing for the Lobby but it WOULD give players the ability to join the arena to help balance out the numbers.

I love the idea Lute. What was overlooked is the fact that you join a country..now squaddies that come in later potentially will be on different countries. We would have to enable them to fly together which would mean they would have to switch anyway.

[Skuzzy]

I’m guessing growth or the lack there of had more to do with the economy of the time then social interaction of large numbers in an arena.  I’m just venturing a guess, but has there been a decline in the overall populations over the last two years.

Nope.  Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd.  Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up.  Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd.  Others follow suit.  The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.

This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.

[Traveler]

Nope.  Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd.  Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up.  Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd.  Others follow suit.  The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.

This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.

I don't buy it.  I've never experienced that in an AH arena and I'm a long time player of AH.  I also never experienced that in AW where I played for two years prior to switching to AH.  I remember the good old days of AH before CAPS, side balancing attempt and the rest.  I do know that I did take a break from AH for three to four months this past year,  do to the economy, I was out of work and $15.00 a month went towards food and medical bills.
I know form my squad that we lost 5 people, they were long time players and the economy did them in.  They also stated to a man, that they didn't like the attempt at side balancing.  They felt that it was only a matter of time before AH was changed to a method that prevented Squad play
 

[Skuzzy]

You do not buy it because you are a long time player and that is exactly why you never saw what we saw.

The problem was new players never subscribing.

Look, this is not something we "guessed" at.  It is absolutely quantifiable.  Just because you chose not to believe it does not make it any less of a fact.  This is actually one of the biggest problems with the dynamic caps.  People insist we do not know what we are talking about, or we must be lieing about it.

Yes, that is what we do.  We try our best to find ways to piss off players we depend on for a living.  That makes so much more sense than anything else said.

It is becoming very clear to me there are people who are not going to believe what we say, no matter what.  There is nothing more I can add to this thread.  Believe what you want.  I am over beating my head against the wall in trying to have a healthy and honest discussion about it.

[Soulyss]

What about offering some sort of carrot when the arena caps kick in?  A message in the text buffer, or pop up screen (that could be set like the .join command) that would occur when the caps kick and would offer some sort of reward like perk points to people who would switch and help populate the second arena?  Once the 2nd/smaller arena reached a certain parity with the larger arena the reward would stop, the caps would keep people from switching back immediately. 

I actually started this reply with another idea but quickly decided that it would be too easily exploited, wouldn't work and dismissed it.  I may decide the same thing about this one if you give me another five minutes.

[RTHolmes]

It is becoming very clear to me there are people who are not going to believe what we say, no matter what.  There is nothing more I can add to this thread.  Believe what you want.  I am over beating my head against the wall in trying to have a healthy and honest discussion about it.

while that may be true in a few cases, the rest of us are just trying to get our heads round what is a rather complex problem. since we dont have access to the data HTC does, we have to make a few guesses and assumptions (total arena numbers over time, join rates etc) from our own experience to try to work out a different way of doing things. the dynamic caps solve one problem, but add a bunch more so its worth looking at

[Traveler]

Given your analogy, (700 closest friends in a area)  I’m just stating I never experienced the social decay that you describe.  I have experienced times when our whole squad had to leave an arena because some of our members were locked out by the caps.  That interrupted the fun.  I don’t mind being outnumbered. I know that is part of combat.

I think that the changes to allow players to change sides to help balance out the numbers does not work.  I ‘d like to see one large arena for game play in prime time USA.  

I’m guessing your attempt at sarcasm :  

Yes, that is what we do.  We try our best to find ways to piss off players we depend on for a living.  That makes so much more sense than anything else said.

 

is misguided.  

You are right we don’t know what the decision making process is that HiTech Creations uses.  We don’t see the subscription numbers and we have no access to exit polls taken when a two week member leaves and gives their reason for not subscribing.   I can only guess they must all say that the number of players in the arena was to high.  That when they decided to play a massive multiplayer online game.  They had no idea that there woule be so many other players and all those other players prevented them from enjoying the game.   I also can only guess that after the caps were installed and two week members left the game they gave reasons other then to many players in an arena.  Oh, that’s right, when members leave the game, HiTech Creations doesn’t ask why someone is closing their account.  Perhaps a signon poll should be taken :

X       Do you want a large LW arena with no cap

X      Do you want the arena balancing as is

X     Do you  want 3 LW arenas two with side balancing and one with no CAP

Be interesting to see the results of that poll.

[Soulyss]

N/M.

[321BAR]

Nope.  Take 700 of your closest friends and pile them into an area where they can barely move, then try and talk to the guy on the other side of the crowd.  Eventually, you get tired of trying to get above the noise level and you give up.  Before you do give up, you get angry and just start yelling obscenities into the crowd.  Others follow suit.  The domino effect goes into full swing and you have a group of people who are just pissed off.

This is what it was like for any new user who tried to come into the game when we had one large arena.

make the area bigger skuzz      Here's an idea... set up THREE LW MAs. One XL map rotation, One Lg to Med map rotation, and one small map rotation. Add equivalent caps to each arena that you would think is perfect for the arena, then sit back and watch. or if this idea doesnt work then just add the third arena and leave the map rotations the same. I also think that it'd be easier to get the MAs to get players in equal amounts compared to each other by allowing map voting. and map voting would also take out the recent map until 2 or 3 rotations happened so as to stop the constant playing of the same map.

[guncrasher]

I have been around for about 3 years.  I have quit several times due to only one reason.  I will join a squad, then I log in and cant play with them due to arena being full.  In my old squad from a couple of weeks ago, there were 5 players and we would be split among two arenas due to cap.  I could understand squads having 20+ players, but 5 of us?  I was about ready to quit again, then the ww1 arena came in and there was no arena caps.  that was the most fun I have had for a while, then they're back again and now its time again to battle the arena cap to join your squad.

  So now I started to wonder if its worth the hassle to play.  keep in mind I spent about 2k in computer, joystick, itrak, etc, just to play this game.  I dont use my computer for anything else, except to play this game and pogo.  I have to work swing now so I can only play untill 1pm pst or after 10 pm pst.  I have not even bother to log in the mornings, due to last year when I worked swing I always had a choice between an arena with 200 or so, or another with about 60 players.  I love furballing and not much going on with about 60 to 100 players in one arena.  nothing better in his game than having 15 to 20 guys battle each other, I dont even care about the kills as long as I get to shoot at somebody .

So I'll probably be gone again soon dont think the arena cap is gonna change and it's not worth the frustration to keep logging on/off to join the arena you want.

semp

[The Fugitive]

make the area bigger skuzz      Here's an idea... set up THREE LW MAs. One XL map rotation, One Lg to Med map rotation, and one small map rotation. Add equivalent caps to each arena that you would think is perfect for the arena, then sit back and watch. or if this idea doesnt work then just add the third arena and leave the map rotations the same. I also think that it'd be easier to get the MAs to get players in equal amounts compared to each other by allowing map voting. and map voting would also take out the recent map until 2 or 3 rotations happened so as to stop the constant playing of the same map.

just look at guncrasher and travelers posts and you'll get your answer. It doesn't matter that HTC needs to do this to keep the game going, both of these guys couldn't care less, it's all about "them". THEY need to fly with their squad, THEY need to fly in a certain arena, THEY don't believe anything HTC has to say, it's all about THEM !

If HTC opened 3 arenas with a cap of 500 (because that is the top end of population for a healthy arena), arena "A" would fill first, and never drop below the cap until very late night night US, early morning Euro. As long as there was 500 people logged on they would be in "A". over flow would be in "B" and milkers in "C"  Arena "B" would only come close to filling Prime time US on Saturday night. Other than that it would be low numbers and all of those people complaining about NOT being able to get into the "A" arena where there is more people to shoot at.

Thats why there is the dynamic cap system. If 600 people are logged in 300 are in one arena and 300 are in the other. That give them 2 arenas with enough numbers to make it fun for everyone instead of one with 500 and the other to split 100 between 3 countries.

Its a necessary evil, and until another plan can be put together that would work better, it's what we are stuck with.

[oTRALFZo]

while that may be true in a few cases, the rest of us are just trying to get our heads round what is a rather complex problem. since we dont have access to the data HTC does, we have to make a few guesses and assumptions (total arena numbers over time, join rates etc) from our own experience to try to work out a different way of doing things. the dynamic caps solve one problem, but add a bunch more so its worth looking at

The problem here is that just about any solution is going to demand some sort of sacrafice from the players. The process of finding a solution which is the less evil to what we have going on now is no easy task.
IRL, my job demands someone with a real troubleshooting gene and this topic has been gnawing at me for days now outiside the game. The fact that its such a challenging task erks me even more and the fact that AH is on my mind when Im not playing has made me wanting to blow my brains out . jk.
I think the community has some real good ideas in mind. I think to come up with any resolution, a few small ideas can be implemented to form the big picture. ( I really like Lute's idea of evening the country sides if they want to join an arena). Perhaps this can be part of a solution and maybe work in how squads can stay together and so on.

[Lusche]

. If 600 people are logged in 300 are in one arena and 300 are in the other. That give them 2 arenas with enough numbers to make it fun for everyone instead of one with 500 and the other to split 100 between 3 countries.

While you are basically right why the caps do have to be dynamic and not static, the last sentence makes me chuckle a bit. Because that's exactly the situation I face every evening because of the arena caps.