51D and F4U-4

[Karnak]

The 1A has to be overmodeled I'm sure they never really performed like they do in AH.

Can you be more specific?  What particular performance aspect has you doubting?

[Lusche]

The 1A has to be overmodeled I'm sure they never really performed like they do in AH.

You should phone HTC and tell them, so they can change it quick!

[hammer]

 

[dirt911]

Your funny Lusche   

You should phone HTC and tell them, so they can change it quick!

[Saxman]

The 1A has to be overmodeled I'm sure they never really performed like they do in AH.

Our 1A is a late-production 1A, with the R-2800-8(W) and three-blade paddle prop like was used on the 1D. She's a c. mid/late-1944 bird.

The only Corsair I would say there is a legitimate and clearly documentable argument for being over-modeled is the F4U-1 which did NOT have WEP. The -1 birdcages were all equipped with the R-2800-8, which did not include WEP (the (W) indicated the engine featured water-methanol injection, thus WEP). This wasn't added to the Corsairs until sometime AFTER the switch to the bubble-top design, at which point the 1A designation was later applied (it's tricky because at the time, but the -1 birdcage and -1A were identified as "-1," the 1A designation was created later and back-dated, however the dividing line is generally considered the addition of the bubble top). Although some of these -1 birdcages were later fit in the field with the 8(W) engine, NONE were produced that way.

I've posted requests a couple times in the Wishlist forum to have WEP removed from the -1 as it should be, but there's probably more important things on their plate, like adding new planes. And if they ever get around to stripping WEP from the -1, I'd like to reiterate my wish for a Goodyear-produced FG-1A without all the extra crap tacked on for carrier operations. Shave off about 500-1000 extra lbs....

[dirt911]

I want FG-2A Goodyear

[Saxman]

If you mean the F2G "Super Corsair," it won't happen. Never entered service, and it was plagued by SIGNIFICANT teething problems by the time it was canceled. If we were to get the aircraft as it existed at the time the project was canceled by the military we wouldn't get anything much better than the -4 we already have.

[RTHolmes]

The only Corsair I would say there is a legitimate and clearly documentable argument for being over-modeled is the F4U-1 which did NOT have WEP. The -1 birdcages were all equipped with the R-2800-8, which did not include WEP (the (W) indicated the engine featured water-methanol injection, thus WEP).

WEP = War Emergency Power, the W does not stand for Water (although many aircraft used this method of boosting power.) It signifies excess power settings which could only be used for a limited time, not continuously.

Corsair R-2800-8 and -8Ws both had WEP in the form of 2700/54" excess power settings (limited to 5min FAA, 30mins USN.) From the 1A onwards (8W) they also had 5min water injection 2700/58-60" in addition to the limited excess power setting. essentially the 1 should have an excess power WEP setting, the 1A onwards should have 2 WEP settings - an excess power setting and 5mins water injection. interestingly the FAA were much more conservative with their limits than the USN for the same aircraft.

[Saxman]

WEP = War Emergency Power, the W does not stand for Water (although many aircraft used this method of boosting power.) It signifies excess power settings which could only be used for a limited time, not continuously.

Corsair R-2800-8 and -8Ws both had WEP in the form of 2700/54" excess power settings (limited to 5min FAA, 30mins USN.) From the 1A onwards (8W) they also had 5min water injection 2700/58-60" in addition to the limited excess power setting. essentially the 1 should have an excess power WEP setting, the 1A onwards should have 2 WEP settings - an excess power setting and 5mins water injection. interestingly the FAA were much more conservative with their limits than the USN for the same aircraft.

Take a closer look at E6B on the F4Us:

Emergency Power: 2700RPM at 57.7" MP (if we're getting shorted on MP in the F4Us under WEP I'd like to petition HTC for a correction. You got a source that shows 60" on water injection?)
Military: 2700RPM at 54" MP

According to your numbers, the game ALREADY allows for this "dry WEP" in the F4U-1. WEP in our F4Us is therefore from the water injection system, which was not installed on the F4U-1.

[RTHolmes]

numbers are from the UK Air Council pilots notes, and the US pilots handbook. dont have a link to them but I have the PDFs on another PC. I'll dig out the operating data numbers tomorrow when I can get to them

[Karnak]

What the dials report doesn't have any direct bearing on performance in a sim.  HTC could very well say "Oops, error in the instruments.", fix it without touching the flight model.  The Mossie in AH has, for about 9 years, been reporting Merlin 21 or 23 boost numbers on the dial while having performance that matches the higher boost of Merlin 25s.

[Saxman]

What the dials report doesn't have any direct bearing on performance in a sim.  HTC could very well say "Oops, error in the instruments.", fix it without touching the flight model.  The Mossie in AH has, for about 9 years, been reporting Merlin 21 or 23 boost numbers on the dial while having performance that matches the higher boost of Merlin 25s.

True, but there's also a possibility Hog drivers have indeed been getting shorted on their WEP settings. So if RT has documentation showing 60" MP was standard for WEP in the Hogs, whether it's an instrument error or not it doesn't hurt to ask HTC to check into it, right?

[dirt911]

True, but there's also a possibility Hog drivers have indeed been getting shorted on their WEP settings. So if RT has documentation showing 60" MP was standard for WEP in the Hogs, whether it's an instrument error or not it doesn't hurt to ask HTC to check into it, right?

No doesn't hurt at all to ask.

[RTHolmes]

Pilot's notes for Corsair I-IV (AP2351A,B,C&D)

R-2800-8 or 8W:
Combat Emergency*    2,700/60"     5min
Take-off             2,700/54"     5min
Combat               2,700/53"     5min
Climbing             2,550/49.5"   1h
Max Rich             2,550/44"     continuous
Max Weak             2,200/34"     continuous
*using water injection


Pilot's Handbook of Flight Operating Instructions (AN 01-45HA-1)
USN: F4U-1, F4U-1C, F4U-1D, F3A-1, F3A-1D, FG-1, FG-1D
FAA: Corsair I-IV

R-2800-8W:
War Emergency        2,700/59.5"    5min
Take-off             2,700/54"      5min
Military             2,700/53"      30min **
Normal               2,550/49.5"    continuous
Max Cruise           2,150/34"      continuous


edit: ** I'm dubious about this 30min, the scan isnt very clear but it does look like 30min. however, elsewhere in the manual WEP is referred to as "2700rpm (five minutes)".
later - "The rpm's and manifold pressures at a given supercharger control setting for take-off, military, and war emergency operation must never be exceeded; the five-minute time limit for each of these conditions must never be exceeded."
This is also consistent with the R-2800-21 used in P-47B/C/D/G - 2550rpm is max continuous, 2700rpm is limited to 5mins.

so ... the AH F4U-1 should look like this:
WEP             2700/53"
Military Power  2550/49.5"
Normal Power    2550/44"
Max Cruise      2150/34"

... the AH F4U-1A/C/D should look like this:
WEP             2700/60"
Military Power  2550/49.5"
Normal Power    2550/44"
Max Cruise      2150/34"

... but the current AH F4U-1/1A/C/D all look like this:
WEP             2700/57.5"
Military Power  2700/54"
Normal Power    2550/44"
Max Cruise      2150/36"


 

[RTHolmes]

No doesn't hurt at all to ask.

be careful what you ask for, you just might get it