Author Topic: Skill Or Heridity  (Read 3759 times)

Offline phatzo

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #90 on: June 04, 2010, 04:11:32 PM »
What can't palef?  Are you saying that eyesight, good or bad, isn't heridity


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Offline LLogann

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #91 on: June 04, 2010, 04:16:11 PM »
I'm very familiar with the "official" stance sir.  That has been that way forever.  They will not endorse "suspect" ideas even though many of their published theories have no data to support them past Phase II studies.  

However, just about every endocrinologist out there, or at least the good ones, all agree that there is more than enough hard data to support the generation skip theory.  

You shouldn't believe everything you read sir.  

And I'll use me as an example.... Somewhere in there it talks about type 1's getting it during the colder weather (I developed it in August, in New Jersey) and that people with low immune systems are more likely (I have never been sick, ever).  I do not think environmental factors have much to do with it at all.  

And not for nothing but the ADA is the only federally funded body to govern over Diabetes research and legislation.  That is the American Diabetes Association..... Which I assume is what you tried to say.  Not whatever it was you wrote, correct?    When you have no competition, you can say whatever keeps your pockets lined with lobbyists.


EDIT:   And I freely admit....  This is my, very educated, opinion, no facts.  But unless you know a Type I or an Endocrinologist, don't just take the word of what the government tells you.    (and that last sentence may make you think I'm "one of those people" - But I'm not, I promise... I trust the US government, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to further the American Dream)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 04:30:38 PM by LLogann »
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Offline palef

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #92 on: June 04, 2010, 04:25:00 PM »
Gaaah!

There's a huge difference in saying that genetically transmitted conditions skip generations and claiming that "genetics" skips generations. If genetics skipped generations there'd be no generation to skip to, would there?

There's effective communication and then there's bollocks. I was quoting bollocks.

Sheesh.
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #93 on: June 04, 2010, 04:33:04 PM »
And rereading my original post, let me ask you this....  What did I say that was false?

LLogann:

Actually, you need to do a bit more homework...this is directly off the Genetics of Diabetes website and it's hyperlink "the genetics of diabetes" which never mentions "generational" skipping.  In fact, http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/genetics-of-diabetes.html states SPECIFICALLY that Diabetes type I and Type II REQUIRE an environmental variable to get it in addition to being genetically pre-disposed.  And I quote:
Which, has a tendency to skip a generation.  

And let me give you Type II straight up...... If you eat like chit, you are probably going to get it by the time you are 50.  No environment needed there either.  And I think EVERYBODY knows a Type II..... Right? 
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #94 on: June 04, 2010, 05:33:02 PM »
Gaaah!

There's a huge difference in saying that genetically transmitted conditions skip generations and claiming that "genetics" skips generations. If genetics skipped generations there'd be no generation to skip to, would there?

There's effective communication and then there's bollocks. I was quoting bollocks.

Sheesh.

Its ok...the poster that I was intending the comment for understood it...I guess it was effective.  But thanks for playing....sheesh
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2010, 06:09:26 PM »
I'm very familiar with the "official" stance sir.  That has been that way forever.  They will not endorse "suspect" ideas even though many of their published theories have no data to support them past Phase II studies.  

However, just about every endocrinologist out there, or at least the good ones, all agree that there is more than enough hard data to support the generation skip theory.  

You shouldn't believe everything you read sir.  

And I'll use me as an example.... Somewhere in there it talks about type 1's getting it during the colder weather (I developed it in August, in New Jersey) and that people with low immune systems are more likely (I have never been sick, ever).  I do not think environmental factors have much to do with it at all.  

And not for nothing but the ADA is the only federally funded body to govern over Diabetes research and legislation.  That is the American Diabetes Association..... Which I assume is what you tried to say.  Not whatever it was you wrote, correct?    When you have no competition, you can say whatever keeps your pockets lined with lobbyists.


EDIT:   And I freely admit....  This is my, very educated, opinion, no facts.  But unless you know a Type I or an Endocrinologist, don't just take the word of what the government tells you.    (and that last sentence may make you think I'm "one of those people" - But I'm not, I promise... I trust the US government, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to further the American Dream)

LLogan:

Not to intrude on your condition and no, I didn't consult an endocrinologist but it interests me because my Dad is Type II...now, he has been known to enjoy a giant chili cheese dog and 12 beers at one sitting and admittedly finds that more important than his current medical condition, so no...I did not consult.  What I did do is look it up...on a Medical school website.  I cannot and do not believe everything I read but...and this may be a big but, one has to assume that posts are very adequately vetted on medical school sites because that is where folks go for immediate advice on what they were just diagnosed with.  Here it is from the University of Washington School of Medicine's official stance:

http://www.orthop.washington.edu/uw/diabetesbasics/tabID__3376/ItemID__31/Articles/Default.aspx

"Facts and myths

Diabetes does not "skip" generations. However, we don't understand the exact reasons why some people get diabetes and others don't.

A common misconception is that if children eat too much candy they will "catch" diabetes. Although we are seeing more type 2 diabetes in young people, this misconception refers to type 1 diabetes and is not true.

For people with diabetes, many feel that occasional blood glucose levels over 200 mg/dL will have long-term consequences. This is not true at all as it is common for glucose levels to rise above this level in almost everyone with diabetes.

There are also many misconceptions regarding food. One common one is that fresh fruit is "healthy" because it is "natural". While this may be true, fruit is also very effective at causing the blood glucose to rise quickly. Fruit juices are the most common problem here. Many people also don't realize how much milk causes blood glucose to rise. Finally, there are many misunderstandings regarding the glucose effects of alcohol. Depending on the type of alcohol consumed and the amount of food consumed, blood glucose can actually go DOWN when drinking so this needs to be done with caution.

There is also a common misunderstanding about exercise. While it is true that exercise usually results in lower blood glucose levels, if a person with type 1 diabetes exercises without sufficient insulin in the bloodstream (for example, more than 12 hours after the last shot of NPH insulin) the blood glucose can actually go UP! In fact exercise at this time period can actually lead to ketoacidosis. Therefore, for people with type 1 diabetes great attention is required balancing blood glucose levels and exercise. Since high blood glucose often occurs when insulin levels in the blood are low, the usual recommendation is to wait until the blood sugar is below 250 mg/dL before participating in strenuous exercise."
You are the expert because you have the condition and I do not....but this is only one of 14 websites from different medical societies, schools and support groups that answer the question this way.  None that I found confirm generation skipping.  Does that means it doesn't?  Not necessarily...but I think its very low risk to believe the medical school sites and support group sites.

Now, this was published about 45 days ago and should interest you immensely.  Very recently they have isolated the specific process that causes your immune system to turn on "itself" within the mechanism of a specific gene and they believe they can break that "binding tolerance"...in other words, once they prove that this iis the cause, they can "turn it off".  Pretty cool actually...it sounds like they might be moving towards a form of "cure"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100419173004.htm

PS - This study was supported by The National Institutes of Health...I think they are safe to believe.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 06:16:14 PM by Changeup »
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

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Offline LLogann

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2010, 10:29:01 PM »
I'm sorry to hear about your Dad brotha.  Type II is a terrible disease that needs drastic lifestyle changes.  I hope he is doing well.  And he really can't be eating those chili dogs anymore.  YOU need to figure out a way to make him realize that. 

But the only thing the 2 types in common really is the name.  Other than that they are 2 totally different diseases. 

Some of the data in those articles you put up look kind of like a masters student's thesis.  I see a few half-truths.  As for ScienceDaily.com.....  If you go to their "about" page you'll see it is more a marketing page than a "who we are" page.  They are trying to sell ad space and they are owned by iVillage.  Not only that but it's a copy & paste site.  "ScienceDaily has grown from a two-person operation to a news service with roughly 2,000 contributing organizations worldwide, partnerships with major content providers, and technical support services."  They are just peddlers of other peoples work.

As for the National Institutes of Health... They are the Nation's Medical Research Agency.  That's what they do, support medical research.  Doesn't actually mean anything other than they gave these people a grant to do some research.  That is all they do, give out money. 


Just saying........   :salute

PS - This study was supported by The National Institutes of Health...I think they are safe to believe.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2010, 11:47:04 PM »
LLogan:

Yes sir...that's because the research was done by Phd's in genetics!  If they are anything like the folks we have in our R & D lab, you and I won't be having beer with them after work...they're so smart, they can pass a written test over the phone!

Seriously..if you look up the research group, they are 100% a part of the solution, not the problem.  I'm sure the website must have been paid to put it out there but it is current science on the subject by looking at comments made by peers on the comparative science section of the CDC website.

Anyway...I'm done...but I have learned a lot.

Cheers to all you brown eyed people who want to have blue eyed kids but can't and don't know why!!

V/r

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"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Ghastly

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #98 on: June 04, 2010, 11:56:26 PM »
 don't know why so many folks have their knickers knotted over this, since the truth is so obvious (or maybe that's just to anyone who's ever worked with livestock?) :  genetics controls predisposition, while environment provides opportunity.

While (obviously) a person doesn't inherit actual skills, people often (but again obviously, certainly not always) inherit a set of genetic traits that predisposes them to more easily, more rapidly, and to a greater extent achieve a higher than average proficiency in a similar set of skills to those that one or both of their parents excelled at when compared to the average. Any one can learn to play the piano for example, but someone with the right predisposition is going to learn to do so with greater ease - and likely achieve a higher level of proficiency as a result - than someone who is tone deaf and has no inherent sense of rhythm.  Of course, both of them have to be given an opportunity to learn to play or neither ever will - and of course, just because the parents don't have a predisposition for greatness at a particular skill doesn't mean that the child can't.  

But as a general rule if you mate two exceptional racehorses, your chances of getting a foal that will win races is far far better than if you randomly selected a couple of cow ponies and hoped for the best.

With people, and skills that are more learned and less physical, environment plays a bigger role, but an inherited predisposition tends to influence environment, in that if one or both parents are musically inclined (for example), their child is going to be more likely to get the exposure that would bring forth the skills that they have a greater than average chance of having a natural proclivity toward.  

The real argument isn't which is important, because both are - the hard question is to what extent do each limit the theoretical development, and because they tend to reinforce each other, to what extent each is responsible for the success (or failure) of any single individual to achieve a specific level of proficiency.

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Offline Changeup

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2010, 12:06:44 AM »
Thank you...

Changeup
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline palef

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2010, 12:39:42 AM »
If irony had wings you fellas would give it a model designation and invade some Latin American country with it.
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Offline swift

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2010, 01:12:25 AM »
this is what i look like
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2010, 09:07:27 AM »
If irony had wings you fellas would give it a model designation and invade some Latin American country with it.

Look!  Palef is trying to be witty...FAIL.  Hope that works out for ya. :rofl

Changeup
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline GearJrk

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »
I'm still trying to understand how having relatives that were WW2 aces relates to skill in an online simulation.... :huh

BTW, I think it's great that not only two brothers flew in WW2, but also served together w/ distinction.
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Offline DOUG

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Re: Skill Or Heridity
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2010, 11:33:40 AM »
well, you certainly didNOT inherit the modesty gene :lol   Pretty unbelievably boastful statement comming from,,,,uh,,,,how should I say,,,,the likes of YOU :rofl   Even someone like GRIZZ (true badarse) would sound foolish asking such a self promoting question :neener:
  tooooooooo funny        :banana:  :banana:  elfy  :neener:
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