Author Topic: Is This Video Real or Doctored?  (Read 6311 times)

Offline BulletVI

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2010, 03:14:59 PM »
Actually Bullet, it's not an "opinion", it's a fact. As in everything you have tried to state as fact has been false, and I'm not the only one who has pointed that out to you regardless of your selective memory, it's in black and white on this thread. Not even Wikipedia has that much false information in it.

Not even close to reality. Testing and development of armor piercing ammuntion was started in the 1850s, and years before WWI, armor piercing high explosive ammuntion was introduced for nearly all cannons, especially naval guns. And your Vickers cannon was developed as an anti-aircraft weapon long before those WWII tests you supposedly read about. None of it has anything to do with the number of cannon rounds found in modern jet fighters, it was supersonic flight and the invention of heat seeking missiles.


Again, waaaay out in left field. The only thing you got partially right was the testing of the Mk-108, but it wasn't from downed or captured 109s. There was no "abundance" of intact 109s found in England during WWII. The 109F did not use the Mk-108 30mm or any other 30mm, ever. It had the MG151/20 which was an upgrade from the earlier MG FF or MG FF/M 20mm found in the earlier 109s. Lastly, the Germans and every other country tested the effectiveness of their weapons on objects other than captured or destroyed enemy equipment long before they were put into production.


Shall I continue, or would you like to thrill me with more of your vast knowledge? FYI for future reference, wikipedia should be the very last place you use for reference material.

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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2010, 03:17:55 PM »
Talk to the HAND you obviously are a person who thinks he is right from the start
LMAO, again false but nice try.

Let me know when you find something you do know something about.
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Bronk

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2010, 04:00:57 PM »
LMAO, again false but nice try.

Let me know when you find something you do know something about.
But he is an aircraft engineer...  ;)
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Offline Pongo

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2010, 04:09:39 PM »

There is not shape charged effect from this round at all, that is just reinforcing for the driving band.
There can be no shaped charge effect without fusing the round to ignite at the base of the round.

Bullet, asking instead of declaring is a better bet when you are new to a subject. Just ask Gyrene, he knows.
We are all interested in this stuff, and we are all learning about it. But declaring things what are off base just leads to arguments, asking things that are off base just leads to discussion.

Offline BulletVI

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2010, 06:07:16 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
There is not shape charged effect from this round at all, that is just reinforcing for the driving band.
There can be no shaped charge effect without fusing the round to ignite at the base of the round.

Bullet, asking instead of declaring is a better bet when you are new to a subject. Just ask Gyrene, he knows.
We are all interested in this stuff, and we are all learning about it. But declaring things what are off base just leads to arguments, asking things that are off base just leads to discussion.

Wasnt declareing i just couldnt find a lot of info on it so i was happy for any correction's on the subject
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Offline bustr

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2010, 05:15:35 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
There is not shape charged effect from this round at all, that is just reinforcing for the driving band.
There can be no shaped charge effect without fusing the round to ignite at the base of the round.

Bullet, asking instead of declaring is a better bet when you are new to a subject. Just ask Gyrene, he knows.
We are all interested in this stuff, and we are all learning about it. But declaring things what are off base just leads to arguments, asking things that are off base just leads to discussion.

The germans made the projectile by a drawing method so a thin but strong steel shell was created. You will notice in the cross section a gradual taper of a darker material from the base towards the meplat. That material has a metal plug screwed into it. The thinest section of the round is in the first third down from the fuse which is acting as the meplat. Just below the fuse in the first sixth of the drawn casing the steel is very thick for a single purpose. If it were as thin there as below in the first third you run into a real danger of a dud because the fuse would simply be pused down into the softer body of explosive. Or, excelleration leaving the barrel could cause premeture detonation. With the thinest section of the casing in the first third at the top of the explosive column, the casing will ruptur there intitialy creating a shaped blast forward and outward.

You can look at the projectile as a pipe bomb. A cap was screwed on one end with lead poured in to a quarter of the pipes volume. The rest is flilled with an explosive mixture and the second cap screwed on. When it detonates which end is the path of least resistance for the hot gasses to expand? Remember, the micro air gaps at the end poured with lead are completly sealed. Granted the explosion is in a nano second and shrapnel will eventualy be thrown everywhere but, where will the intial bursting force of the hot gasses concentrate and vector the blast along?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Die Hard

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2010, 07:36:30 PM »
Then please explain the spherical blast patterns of the British static tests posted in this thread?
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2010, 07:40:48 PM »
How were the rounds detonated in the static British tests?
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline Bronk

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2010, 07:49:31 PM »
How were the rounds detonated in the static British tests?



This one was suspended inside the airframe then detonated I think.
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Offline BulletVI

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2010, 09:13:38 PM »

And what type of detination was it???

Was it detonated by fuse ?


                        By time pencil detonator's ?

How as i think that certain forms of detonation also have some small force dehind them but hey who know's.
anyone know of an explosive's expert ????  :D  :salute

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Offline Stoney

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2010, 09:14:07 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

This one was suspended inside the airframe then detonated I think.

Yeah, I understand that, but how did they detonate them?  Electrical, blasting cap, etc.?  TW probably knows.
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

HiTech

Offline bustr

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2010, 01:40:40 AM »
No more educated speculation.
----------------------------------------

It's from "Flying Guns of World War II; Development of Aircraft guns, ammunition, and installations 1933-1945" by Anthony G. Williams and Emmanuel Gustin.


Weapons

"The German approach represented a completely different philosophy from that of the USAAF. Instead of using the kinetic energy of large numbers of high-velocity AP bullets to destroy the target, the Luftwaffe relied on the blast effect of large quantities of HE detonating within the structure. Both approaches seemed to work well, but of course the USAAF generally only had to attack enemy fighters (for which HMGs were usually powerful enough), not bombers. By the end of the war, the M-Geschoss had become the standard German type of aircraft cannon projectile, and it was widely adopted by other air forces post-war. Hollow-charge projectiles were developed for the 30mm guns, but it appears that they did not see service; in fact, only in recent years have the problems of using such technology in small-calibre cannon ammunition been solved.

As we have seen, the British were systematic in testing whatever German guns and ammunition they could get hold of against realistic aircraft targets, and they concentrated hard on the 20mm guns, particularly with HE ammunition. They discovered the following:

* In firing trials against bullet-proof Triplex glass at a range of 46m and a striking angle of 45 degrees, an MG-FF firing HE/T projectiles could penetrate 3.8 cm glass but not 6.35 cm.

* HEI with instant-action fuse fired from an MG-151/20 at 183m would detonate on a Perspex canopy, with the fragments making little impression on the armour behind.

* The same ammunition set light to a self-sealing wing fuel tank of a Blenheim light bomber with three shots out of eight.

* The same ammunition could be protected against by 12mm face-hardened armour, or just 6.6mm homogeneous armour (which was less brittle.)

* For comparison purposes a few rounds of 20mm Hispano HEI were fired at the same target as above. The test report commented that although the German HEI (M-Geschoss) contained more explosive, the powerful Hispano stood more chances of doing serious damage - such as the breaking of spar flanges - or of reaching the fuel tanks.

* A test of German 20mm incendiary/tracer ammunition showed that it was remarkably effective, with 17 out of 22 rounds hitting the usual Blenheim wing tank causing fires; but 14 rounds ignited prematurely and flashed at the muzzle, and these proved ineffective. The ammunition was judged to be faulty.

The 30mm HEI M-Geschoss, fired from an Mk-108, was also tested. Unsurprisingly, ten rounds fired at a Spitfire fuselage resulted in a score of three immediately lethal, seven probably lethal. Eleven rounds fired at a Blenheim achieved the same results, plus one doubtful. The Germans discovered that a wing hit on a B-17 resulted in a hole of 100 x 175 cm. It was noted that the ammunition did not have much effect on heavy bomber fuselages (presumably because of the large volume for th explosion to dissipate into), but inflicted serious aerodynamic damage to the wings by blowing off the surfaces, and that the incendiary content was very effective in starting fires. German tests reflected these results, and also revealed significant differences on the construction of the aircraft. Stressed-skin alloy monococque structures were most vulnerable to being blown apart. Steel structures clad with thin aluminum were less affected as the cladding quickly split, releasing the pressure before it had much time to damage the structure, and fabric-covered structures, such as the Wellington bomber, were damaged least of all. It was not only the blast which inflicted damage; after the war, the Americans test-fired an MK-108 HEI shell into the tail of a B-24 at a typical angle, characteristic of a tail interception by an Me-262. The 'spray' pattern of very high-velocity, very small fragments cut most if not all of the control cables and many of the longerons. It was assessed that the tail would have separated if the plane had been in flight: a performance which made a great impression on the observers. Protective measures could be taken against blast effects, and it was discovered that a 20mm thick strong rubber foam mat lining compartments significantly reduced the effect.

The British and American 20mm Hispano HE/HEI shells were conventional thick-walled designs with more limited HE capacity but considerable kinetic energy. They also produced larger and heavier fragments than the M-Geschoss when they burst, which would have carried further and penetrated more deeply. The British Mk 1.z HE shell was expected to a blow a hole between 75mm and 200mm in diameter in 12mm armour plate, while scattering shell fragments up to 5 meters. British tests of the HEI revealed that coolant, lubricant and fuel systems would be holed by fragments resulting from hits on engine cowlings, and detonation some 75mm from a self-sealing tank would result in a hole over 50mm in diameter, causing leakage of 1,900 litres per hour. Whether a Hispano HEI or a 20mm M-Geschoss would do most damage depended on the aircraft being attacked, and exactly where the shell detonated.

The Soviets selected a relatively light projectile weight of 91 - 99 grams for the ShVAK's 20 x 99R cartridge, although they did not have the benefit of M-Geschoss technology. Heaviest was the API Type BZ, which had a sub-calibre hard steel penetrator, the jacket tip being filled with incendiary material. The HEI Type OZ had a very small HE capacity, representing only around six percent of the weight. The 23mm projectiles used in the Vya and the NS-23 went to the other extreme, weighing an impressive 200 grams. The type BZ API was still steel-cored, with 6.6 grams of incendiary compound in the tip, while the Type OZT HEI/T, and the 37mm HE shell, again had only a small percentage of their weight devoted to HE. They were clearly expected to inflict most damage by fragmentation rather than blast effect; British tests of the Vya HEI revealed that blast effects were similar to those of hte 20mm Hispano HEI.

Japanese cannon projectiles varied between the heavy (IJN 20mm Type 99 projectiles weighed around 128 grams, the IJA's Ho-1 and Ho-3 up to around 127-136 grams) to the very light (IJA 20mm Ho-5 as little as 79 grams). AP projectiles were of the cannon type (I.E. Solid steel) rather than using sub-calibre cores. HE shells generally had a modest filling ratio, although the little 79 grams Ma 202 HEI used in the Ho-5 managed an impressive - for a non-M-Geschoss - fifteen percent change/weight figure by virtue of its fuseless design: where a fuse would normally be was a PETN HE exploder (the equivalent of the more powerful Ho-1 and Ho-3 being the 109 gram HEI). Larger cannon shells such as the IJN 30mm Type 2 HE and the 37mm shell used in the Ho-203 and Ho-204 also varied in their change/weight ratios.

The frequent use of unprotected PETN exploders in Japanese ammunition must have represented a significant handling risk, and does not appear to have been copied by other countries."


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bustr

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2010, 01:41:44 AM »
Armour penetration

"Comparisons between the penetration achieved by different armour-piercing cartridges are problematic for several reasons. First, penetration figures are often quoted at different distances and striking angles (incidentally, striking angles in this work are all quoted using the convention that the most favourable angle for penetration, perpendicular (or 'normal') to the armour, is measured as 90 degrees; some other conventions have described this as 0 degrees). Much less obviously, different qualities of armour are sometimes assumed. There have also been various national definitions of 'penetration'; some (e.g. the US) specified that 50 percent of the shots fired have to pass through the target, others required signficantly higher percentages, or did not require the shot to pass completely through the target. Finally, AP performance was usually measured on the ground. When fired from an aircraft, the actual figure would be slightly reduced in a tail chase due to increased air resistance (less of an effect at high altitude), but would be increased when firing at ground targets because the speed of the aircraft was added to the muzzle velocity, and considerably increased in a head-on attack.

In addition to these problems, the actual performance of AP projectiles in battle can vary considerably from that achieved on test. In particular, passing through the thin aluminium aircraft skin can induce yaw, i.e. disturb the straight flight of the projectile away from travelling point-first, so that it fails to hit the armour head-on, thereby significantly reducing its penetrative abilities. In fact the degree of obstruction caused by aircraft structures is such that armour much thinner than theory indicated would be necessary was often found to give satisfactory results.

The most exhaustive tests during the Second World War seem to have been carried out in Germany. Official penetration curves for 7.92mm AP rounds tested in 1942 are worth examining in detail because they reveal the variations wihch can occur. The SmK-v (Spitzgeschoss mit Stahlkern verbessert, improved pointed bullet with steel core) achived the following:

At 100 meters:- 12mm/90 degrees - 8mm/60 degrees - 3.5mm/30 degrees

At 300 meters:- 9mm/90 degrees - 6mm/60 degrees - 3mm/30 degrees

At 600 meters:- 6mm/90 degrees - 3.5mm/60 degrees - 1.5mm/30 degrees

However, if the bullet first penetrated at 3mm dural (light alloy) aircraft skin angled at 70 degrees, armour penetration at 100 meters dropped to 4mm/90 degrees, 3mm/60 degrees and 2.5mm/30 degrees.

These results are supported by tests carried out by the British in January 1941 to compare British and German rifle-calibre steel-cored AP ammunition. The performance of the .303 (11.28 grams at 735 meters/second) and the 7.92mm (of unspecified type, but measured at 11.53 grams at 788 meters/second) was first tested against 'homogeneous hard armour'. The thickness necessary to achieve immunity from this ammunition at 183 meters (200 yards) was 12.0 mm for the .303 in, 12.5mm for the 7.92mm, when striking 'at normal' to the armour (i.e. at 90 degrees). The British ammunition was significantly worse when the striking angle changed to 70 degrees; only 6.6mm was needed for immunity in comparion with 8.9mm to protect against the German round.

The test then changed to shooting at the rear of the long-suffering Bristol Blenheim at the same distance, involving penetrating the rear fuselage before reaching the 4 mm armour plate protecting the rear gunner, which was angled at 60 degrees to the line of fire. The results in this case were reversed: 33 percent of the .303 in rounds reached the armour and 6 percent penetrated it. In contrast, only 23 percent of the 7.92mm bullets reached the armour, and just 1 percent penetrated. The British speculated that the degree of stability of the bullets (determined by bullet design and the gun's rifling) might have accounted for these differences.

Continuing with the German ammunition (for which more detailed records seem to survive than any other nation's during the period), it is instructive to compare some of the standard AP types in different calibres. The little 13 x 64B Pzgr for the MG-131 was capable of penetrating 17mm/100 meters/90 degrees, but this dropped to just 10mm/60 degrees and 4mm/30 degrees (equivalent figures at 300 meters being 11mm/90 degrees and 7mm/60 degrees). On the other hand, the consequences of hitting the dural plate were negligible, only reducing penetration by 1 or 2 mm.

Before turning to the 20 mm cannon it is worth mentioning the performance of the .50 in Browning. The official requirement for the M2 AP way to penetrate 22mm steel at 183 meters (200 yards) (the M8 API was expected to match this figured at 92 meters). The striking angle is not specified but assumed to be 90 degrees. Official US tables for the M2 show penetration at 300 meters as follows: 21mm/90 degrees, 13mm/60 degrees, 5mm/30 degrees.

These measurements were to the USN criterion which called for 50 percent of shots to penetrate. British tests at 183m determined that the M2 would penetrate 21mm at 0 degrees angle of yaw (i.e. the bullet was flying perfectly straight), but this dropped to 15mm with only 10 degrees of yaw (such as might be caused by passing through an aircraft's skin before hitting the armour). Further tests at 90 meters firing through a heavy bomber fuselage demonstrated an ability to penetrate between 14 and 20 mm when firing at angles of between 57 and 77 degrees. German tests credited the M2 with a penetration of 25mm/100 meters/90 degrees, falling to only 10mm after passing through the dural skin (the 12.7mm Berezin API was even worse affected, falling from 25mm to 8.5mm). Taking the effects of typical ranges, striking angles and fuselage structures into account, it seems likely that the practical penetration of either the M2 or M8 was in the region of 10-15 mm in normal circumstances. This was generally adaquate for dealing with aircraft armour, although it should be noted that Finnish pilots using Brewster Buffalos armed with .50 in Brownings reported considerable difficulty in shooting down Soviet fighters from directly behind, and recommended attacking from a slight angle in order to fire past the rear armour plate.

German 20mm ammunition did not have sufficient velocity to justify the use of Hartkernmunition, so the AP types were plain steel with some incendiary content, the 117 gram Pzbr containing a capsule with 3.6 grams of phopshorous. The low velocity (under 600 m/sec) MG-FFM, usually derided for its lack of penetration, was actually quite satisfactory when loaded with one of the various Pzgr projectiles which seem to have become available from 1941. Maximum penetration (100 m/90 degrees) varied between 18 and 24 mm depending on type, with the more realistic 300m/60 degree giving figures of 9-10 mm. The effect of prior penetration of the usual angled 3mm dural skin varied hugely, from about 5 percent to around 40 percent reduction, depending on the projectile type and the striking angle. As one would expect, the results for the higher velocity MG-151/20 firing the same projectiles was slightly better, at 12-13mm/300m/60 degrees. The British considered what thickness of armour was required to protect against this ammunition, and determined that for a bomber around 15-18mm would be adaquate, although for protecting the rear of the existing Spitfire and Tempest fighters the best solution within the weight limits would be two plates of 7mm and 4mm, 150mm apart.

The Allied 20mm Hispano was significantly more powerful than the MG-151/20, but little attempt seems to have been made to exploit this in terms of armour penetration. As already described, the RAF settled on a mixture of HEI and a SAPI projectile which was specified to penetrate 20mm/200 meters/90 degrees and ignite petrol in cans behind the plate. This was regarded, with some justification, as entirely adequate to deal with enemy aircraft. The US M75 AP shot for this cartridge was claimed to penetrate 18mm homogeneous plate or 16.5mm face-hardened armour at 457 meters/70 degrees. Another US official source gives penetration at 300m as follows: 31-39 mm/90 degrees (depending on the armour hardness), 19mm / 60 degrees and 10mm/30 degrees (presumably for average armour hardness). The Germans surprisingly credited this loading with only 25 mm/100m/90 degrees, although noted that passing through the usual dural skin only reduced this to 21mm. The British did experiment with a tungsten-cored type, similar to Hartkernmunition (the AP Mark III.z) designed by Janecek of 'squeezebore' gun fame, which was intended to penetrate up to 60 mm/200 m/70 degrees, but it seems that it was ballistically unsatisfactory and was not adopted.

The Soviet 20mm ShVak API, which like their 12.7mm had a hard steel core with the incendiary mixture in the tip of the jacket, preformed erratically in the german tests, achieving 24mm/100m/90 degrees, but only 7mm after passing through the dural skin. In the same test, the figures for the 23mm Vya (taken at 300m instead of 100m) were 30mm and 16mm respectively.

One curious aspect of AP performance is that the maximum damage to the aircraft to the aircraft structure was caused when the projectile had only just enough power to penetrate; higher velocities than this merely punched neater holes."


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline bustr

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2010, 01:42:19 AM »
Ammunition Belt Make-Up

"The pros and cons of the different types of projectiles were such that virtually all air forces loaded a mix of different types in each ammunition belt, although the exact make-up depended on the nationality, the gun and the circumstances, and varied over time. Unfortunately, comprehensive records do not seem to have survived, but in any case they would be of doubtful value because this was one choice which individual pilots or gunners often made for themselves (with or without official approval) as the ammunition belts were generally filled by ground crew at each station. What follows is therefore only indicative.

It should incidentally be noted that while disintegrating link steel belts were standard issue in the Second World War, some of the German ones could be changed between disintegrating and non-disintegrating modes as required. For a while in 1943 fabric belts were issued for some American .50 in Browning guns due to a production shortfall in metal belts (although there is some doubt about whether these were used in aircraft, which had priority for steel belts). Some guns (e.g. the US 37mm M4 and IJA 37mm Ho-203 and 57mm Ho-401) used 'closed-loop' belts which were built into the magazine and non-disintegrating.

The RAF fighters armed with eight .303 in guns differed from the usual practice by loading each gun with only one type of ammunition. During the Battle of Britain in 1940, the reported use was three guns loaded with ball, two with AP, two with Mk IV incendiary tracer (the incendiary material ignoted on firing and burned throughout the flight, giving a tracer effect) and one with Mk VI incendiary (the 'De Wilde'). It is not clear why the Mk VI was used so little or why ball was used at all, possibly there was a shortage of the more effective loadings.

RAF Bomber Command principally used .303 in guns for defensive fire. In 1942 the approved ratios for loading the belts in four-gun turrets were 65 percent AP, 25 percent incendiary and 10 percent tracer (two-gun turrets had 20 percent tracer with the others reduced accordingly.) Between 1942 and 1944 the approved sequence was 70 percent AP, 20 percent incendiary and 10 percent tracer. This was modified in May 1944 to increase the proportion of incendiary to 20-30 percent, and changed again just before the end of the war to 100 percent incendiary, on the grounds that the German fighters were too heavily armoured for rifle-calibre AP to have any effect, whereas incendiaries at least stood a chance of setting light to something. Fixed .303 in guns for air fighting were loaded 50 percent AP and 50 percent Incendiary; for attacking ground targets the figures changed to 75 percent AP, 25 percent Incendiary. The .303 in Mosquito FB nose guns were loaded with unmixed belts of AP and incendiary rounds; i.e. two guns fired only AP, two only incendiaries (this also appeared to be standard practice with Spitfire .303s). The few .50 in Brownings used in Bomber Command (initially only in American-made aircraft) also saw changes in the loading sequence, from 40 percent AP, 40 percent Incendiary and 20 percent tracer in 1942, to 60 percent AP, 20 percent incendiary and 20 percent tracer in early 1944. Spitfires equipped with the .50 in used 50 percent each of AP and incendiary rounds until the M8 API became available, when that was used exclusively.

The Luftwaffe saw considerable variations in belt loading, as follows:

The 7.92mm MG-17 used in fighters were loaded with 50 percent AP, 40 percent API and 10 percent HEI (a Beobachtungsgeschoss, or observation round, which exploded on impact to show the pilot he was on target). For ground attack and for the MG-15 and MG-81 felxible guns, the sequence typically changed to equal proportions of AP, AP-T and API; v-munition loadings were only used in the MG-17. The 13mm MG-131 was loaded with one or two HEI for every AP/T. Official loadings for the 20mm belts and magazines varied at different times and places. Three types of projectiles were usually mixed in the belts: HEI (M-Geschoss), HE/T and AP/API or APHE. Ratios quoted include 1:1:1, 3:1:1, and 2:2:1 respectively.

Generally speaking, the more powerful weapons were able to provide sufficient destructive power with only one or two projectile types, so belts were less varied. As we have seen, an equal mix of HEI and SAPI became standard in the RAF's 20mm Hispanos, whereas the 30mm MK-108 principally relied on the M-Geschoss HEI it was designed for. The .50 in Browning fighter belts in US service started the war loaded with 40 percent AP, 40 percent Incendiary and 20 percent tracer. The tracer fell out of favour when it was realised that it was providing more help to the enemy. By the end of the war, fighters were primarily loaded with the M8 API (which appeared in service in spring 1944), as this proved to be a good general-purpose projectile, although the M23 incendiary also saw some use.

Some fighter pilots loaded the last section of their belts with tracer, to give them a warning that they were close to running out of ammunition (round counters not being commonly used, or at least looked at during combat). However, the enemy soon realised this and could turn it to their tactical advantage."
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline morfiend

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Re: Is This Video Real or Doctored?
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2010, 08:05:37 AM »
Yeah, I understand that, but how did they detonate them?  Electrical, blasting cap, etc.?  TW probably knows.


 From what I read they were exploded by electrical ignition.Atleast this was the case with the Blenhiem.


   :salute