Icons

[Vulcan]

With all due respect to all squadrons participating in FSO...

With all due respect maybe you should read a bit more on the issue. It's a playability problem. Reduced icon ranges = reduced (severely) playability for many players. There are some people who argue icons aren't historic, well neither is the visual fidelity of the game. Icons are there as a crutch for the fact the game can never deliver the visual acuity real life provides - end of story. I suggest you do a search of the BBS as this subject has been discussed before in depth including reference USAF research of visibility, depth perception etc, and each time the result was the same, the game cannot deliver what real life provides.

Not only that but some players with smaller screens, less resolution etc are significantly disadvantaged. Then it becomes who spends the most $$$$ on a PC and screen wins.

[Stoney]

I'm not some snotty kid with a box of tissues for a girlfriend living with his parents spending 40 hours a week in the MA. FSO occurs at midday Sat my time, my wife takes the time to make sure my 2 boys are clear so I can have a couple of hours enjoyment to myself a week...You have to ask yourself is FSO the right place to be experimenting with your 'creativity' (personally I think labeling short icon ranges as 'creative' reeks of someone inhaling too deeply).

No, my idea of "creative" spans a bit more than simply changing icons.  Its icon settings this week, but my response to Kaz was to address his mention of "tweaks and changes over the past year or so", and not merely those identified with this setup.  The guys that run FSO setups are all grown men (30+ years), with real jobs, and some have family responsibilities as well.  Somehow, they fight through all of that and are able to find 8-10 hours per frame to run the event.  So, yeah, they've earned the right to be creative--its their personal time they're surrendering to put these events together.

[WWhiskey]

Agreed!!! <<S>>   
try to take the good with the bad,
 sometimes they ring the bell, sometimes,,,not so much!!!
still, they do a lot of work to show so many of us a good time, now if you can,t take a little heat when things don't bode well,,,I don't know?
My advice would be to not take it personally, most of the people who posted here hopefully only meant to help!
As it turns out, there were a few "other"  problems that resulted in adding to this fire that were not the fault of anyone involved !
again <<S>> to all the FSO staff, still the best show going!!!

[AKKaz]

It seems to me that the mentality of "If you don't do it our way, we're not flying" is pretty disrespectful to those running the event.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours is certainly quite valid. However, to chose not to participate, well that just seems kinda rude. Next thing you know, if you don't get the side you want, well your just not gonna fly. Don't get the aircraft you want....well we're sitting this one out too. Next thing you know it's a circus trying to juggle just who's flying this time and who isn't.

Not a problem....

Any squadron may or may not participate for any reason as long as it is updated within the FSO criteria rules.  There is no disrespect intended toward anyone, and I'm positive the CM team knows that.
Side numbers, missions and allocations are set AFTER the signup date/time for each event.

As with all involved, everyone has an option.........  The point I posted (as many due) is in a way to submit what we see as valid concerns, and great care in the words posted by me are made to be as diplomatic as possible.  As with quite a few questionable items that have come up over the years, usually we let them go by as no real need to make any comments because of the possibility that in might be seen as you saw.  The difference this time was the fact that I had been previously asked as to why and was not going give an answer to this until this thread came along. My apologies to the event designers if us bowing out caused undo work and stress, I don't beleive this is the case in the slightest.  I have much respect for them and their work, and because of that, I am positive they would not be foolish enough to set the scenerio pass or fail based on numbers before they have come in. Hence pre FSO validation requirement.

I am sorry you seen it as such.

Apologies to all, I rarely post, and this went off target... I will have no further comments

<S>

AKKaz
CO Arabian Knights

[Boxboy]

No, my idea of "creative" spans a bit more than simply changing icons.  Its icon settings this week, but my response to Kaz was to address his mention of "tweaks and changes over the past year or so", and not merely those identified with this setup.  The guys that run FSO setups are all grown men (30+ years), with real jobs, and some have family responsibilities as well.  Somehow, they fight through all of that and are able to find 8-10 hours per frame to run the event.  So, yeah, they've earned the right to be creative--its their personal time they're surrendering to put these events together.

While you are quite right, it does take some time and effort to organize one of these events, it is a mistake to think that dictatorship is the reward for doing the work.  I doubt that anyone volunteering his/her time actually expects that sort of reward, being an Indian Chief rings hollow if there are no Indians.  Folks who come here and fly in these things and make time to do it on a Friday night also deserve some consideration, and if they don't get it they may choose to opt out.

[Stoney]

I doubt that anyone volunteering his/her time actually expects that sort of reward, being an Indian Chief rings hollow if there are no Indians.  Folks who come here and fly in these things and make time to do it on a Friday night also deserve some consideration, and if they don't get it they may choose to opt out.

First, the guys that put these events together want to create events that people enjoy--period.  That is ultimately the first and foremost goal.  Fun--its really that simple.  If you guys will acknowledge that, and stop accusing them of "wrecking" the event, it would improve the environment to discuss the settings.  

Second, its great to have an opinion, and to even express that opinion vociferously, but to threaten to stop participating unless the event is run just the way you personally think it should is wrong.  For every one of those folks who don't like the short icons, I can find someone that does.  For every one that decries some of the attempts at "realism" in FSO, I can find the same number who think it doesn't go far enough.  The only difference is that you don't see those people telling folks they're going to walk unless the event is crafted exactly the way they think it should be.

And again, I'll challenge the community, that if you have strong ideas on how FSO should be setup, contact DD and volunteer for that open FSO Admin position.

[captain1ma]

  Ive been biteing my tounge on this one but it needs to be said. When your biggest support is from a squad that got kicked out of FSO,you seriously need to take a look at what your promoting. Cause your so far from right you should be ashamed.

what squad might that be?

[68Wooley]

I might be way off base here, but how many people were really aware of the radar / icons settings before the outset of the frame? I was commanding the 68th on Friday, had read the orders and set-up notes numerous times (both of which had the settings plain to see) and I failed to pick up on it. I'm guessing I wasn't the only one. As a result, our tactics were way off.

I'm guessing frame 1 was somewhat chaotic as people were caught off-guard and struggled to adapt to the changes. Frames 2 and 3 should be a better indication of what a frame run under these settings are really like. I didn't particularly enjoy Friday, but I'm putting that down to me being ill-prepared - I'm quite happy to give it another couple of frames to see how it shakes out.

[Otaz]

....its great to have an opinion, and to even express that opinion vociferously, but to threaten to stop participating unless the event is run just the way you personally think it should is wrong.  For every one of those folks who don't like the short icons, I can find someone that does.  For every one that decries some of the attempts at "realism" in FSO, I can find the same number who think it doesn't go far enough.  The only difference is that you don't see those people telling folks they're going to walk unless the event is crafted exactly the way they think it should be.

I'm gonna quit if the icon range isn't made even shorter...and if there isn't more realism added...and if I don't get my "I Win" button..and if etc.  











Ok Ok...Im joking...everyone relax sphincters.  

[Boxboy]

Second, its great to have an opinion, and to even express that opinion vociferously, but to threaten to stop participating unless the event is run just the way you personally think it should is wrong.  For every one of those folks who don't like the short icons, I can find someone that does.  For every one that decries some of the attempts at "realism" in FSO, I can find the same number who think it doesn't go far enough.  The only difference is that you don't see those people telling folks they're going to walk unless the event is crafted exactly the way they think it should be

Well it seems the ones that like short icons are not matching the dislike so far in this thread?  As for opting out if the setup is undesirable, I guess that is the way folks in America make decisions everyday?  Why buy a Ford over a Toyota, they both get you where your going? You seem to be saying that any idea a designer wants to put forward should met with open arms, regardless of how the participants feel about it, I doubt very much that idea will fly for long.

[Stoney]

Well it seems the ones that like short icons are not matching the dislike so far in this thread?  As for opting out if the setup is undesirable, I guess that is the way folks in America make decisions everyday?  Why buy a Ford over a Toyota, they both get you where your going? You seem to be saying that any idea a designer wants to put forward should met with open arms, regardless of how the participants feel about it, I doubt very much that idea will fly for long.

I'm not talking about arbitrarily turning the sky pink or yellow.  Do what you want. 

[BigR]

It was said months ago that the current crop of CMs was hell bent on reducing icon ranges to 0. Everyone said that would never happen. We are slowly being conditioned to accept this ridiculous/gameplay killing setup. The majority of the players hate short icon ranges. Not only that, short icons are UNFAIR to players with small screens and or bad eyesight. Despite this fact, the CMs insist on forcing this crappy gameplay down our throats. I think some people are too intent on recreating history when they SHOULD be focused on creating compelling gameplay situations based in a historical setting. These are not historical reenactments. We play a game..thats right folks..you are not real fighter pilots. This is not WWII. This is a game. And games need to be fair, balanced and fun.

[saltee]

Damn right, Otaz!  More realism!  I'm giving AH 2-weeks notice.  If they haven't found a way for us to actually feel the G's while maneuvering (sans just blacking out), by this deadline, I'm out of here.  I also think we should be banned from all arenas, for 1-week, anytime we get shot down/crash.  Hey, maybe we can come up with a way to experience wounds received.  How about a real paycheck, prorated of course, to match the inflation of the last 60-years or so?   

Let's see if this raises the level of gullibility a notch or two.   

Just out of curiousity, to those being the most personally negative towards the scenario designers, have you ever volunteered to create one for others to enjoy?  If so, is this payback for all the BS you had to take because all didn't see eye-to-eye with you and your creation?  If not, why don't y'all dream one up so we can personally browbeat your lineage?

Shoot the message, not the messenger that delivered it. 

[Boxboy]

Damn right, Otaz!  More realism!  I'm giving AH 2-weeks notice.  If they haven't found a way for us to actually feel the G's while maneuvering (sans just blacking out), by this deadline, I'm out of here.  I also think we should be banned from all arenas, for 1-week, anytime we get shot down/crash.  Hey, maybe we can come up with a way to experience wounds received.  How about a real paycheck, prorated of course, to match the inflation of the last 60-years or so?   

Let's see if this raises the level of gullibility a notch or two.   

Just out of curiousity, to those being the most personally negative towards the scenario designers, have you ever volunteered to create one for others to enjoy?  If so, is this payback for all the BS you had to take because all didn't see eye-to-eye with you and your creation?  If not, why don't y'all dream one up so we can personally browbeat your lineage?

Did you ever personally build a car from scratch if not I don't see why your driving one???

Shoot the message, not the messenger that delivered it. 

[TinmanX]

And again, I'll challenge the community, that if you have strong ideas on how FSO should be setup, contact DD and volunteer for that open FSO Admin position.

So our apps can be rejected for previously voicing strong opinions?